NPC Dura

[shaeberle84]

You can buy cheap npc ships up to heavy frigates since the last patch.

 

With the recent changes to port battles, it is possible to field the fleets necessary for fight 80% of the port battles with mostly ships (Constitutions). These cost ~50.000g per dura. Loosing these ships does not hurt as much, as it should. Wars are currently fought using attrition.But with a almost unlimited and very cheap supply of heavy frigates to defend all ports except regional capitals, this does not work.

 

Casting ships is not really worth it right now. One mid grade note costs about the same what an npc Conni costs.

 

One possible solution would be to make basic npc ships only one dura.

 

You could also think about changing the crafting mechanic such that crafting a basic ship has one dura and each note added increases durability by one, up to five.

[Skully]

The real problem is the economic model. NPC ship crafters should charge (more) for their hours, so player ship crafters can actually build ships cheaper.

Now this leads to the problem of having too expensive ships on the market for beginner players. This can be countered by allowing you to specify how much dura you want to buy (up to the current dura limit). Effectively becoming a multiplier.

At that point also allow selling of any dura and potentially add crafting to any dura. It would need some finicky tweaking of the balancing algorithms though.

[BungeeLemming]

the problem lies within the players and the players only.

If the greedy crafters would have any sense of fairness they would offer ships at prices everyone could afford.

But money isnt worth a bit and hence crafters think its legid to ask 100+k for a small vessel.

which they produced for 50+k.

 

 

Its all because of the mentality:

crafting hours cost money and I will charge 1billion gold more for each frikkin labor hour I put into this vessel.

 

I am fed up with this thinking.

But I know noone will change it.

I put a cheap bellona into the shop. only than one of these greedy "enter curse word here" bought it to re-sell it later with 4 times the price.

 

Its not within the game.

Its within the gamer's thinking.

 

___________

rant end!

[Eishen]

the problem lies within the players and the players only.

If the greedy crafters would have any sense of fairness they would offer ships at prices everyone could afford.

But money isnt worth a bit and hence crafters think its legid to ask 100+k for a small vessel.

which they produced for 50+k.

 

 

Its all because of the mentality:

crafting hours cost money and I will charge 1billion gold more for each frikkin labor hour I put into this vessel.

 

I am fed up with this thinking.

But I know noone will change it.

I put a cheap bellona into the shop. only than one of these greedy "enter curse word here" bought it to re-sell it later with 4 times the price.

 

Its not within the game.

Its within the gamer's thinking.

 

___________

rant end!

 

report and warn yourself for ranting 

 

 Cannot agree with you (and I am no crafter)  ships sells so high as money is easy to be farmed now, virtually we are printing bank notes with each cannon shot,  so inflation is rampant and will bwe so until this is changed .  

 

"Non crafters" (non ship-crafters) charge them quiet a bunch for their labor hours for the same inflation effect

 

NPC ship cost , being inflation-free, helps to keep prices tied to the ground...but at the same make crafters reluctant to make those same ships (as shaeberle wrote now thwe backbone of the fleet)  hurtings "private enterprising"  (pro and anti commie economist  begin debate here  )

 

I think (hope) all of this is only temporary , we are been given losts of money , cheap ships and quick pace conquest to TEST at a faster pace.... we got advice that RvR is gonna change to a much slower pace (port cooldowns and attacks preparations being multi-day), and  Admin has repeated more than once than money by making damage is a temporary solution .... 

[BungeeLemming]

All in its right meassure.

 

I know money isnt worth a thing.

But why the heck would you then want even more money - for nothing?

 

Our clan produces under production cost. raw mats even for free. Cause who cares about money? Noone does.

And yet - crafters do.

why?

I understand that you want a compensation for your effort. But the sheer greedyness of the free marked wont make it into my head. Its absurd.

 

NPC ships are crap. I sailed one - sold one. They are only there for a cheap transition if you need a ship quick and dirty.

Maybe if you want to abuse the fire mechanic to bits.

saying theat they reduce the will to craft good ships is not real.

Even if they were for free I would not sail them. Crafted ships are so much better.

In PvP you need a goo ship. For me that means a gold ship. period.

[Eishen]

All in its right meassure.

 

I know money isnt worth a thing.

But why the heck would you then want even more money - for nothing?

 

Our clan produces under production cost. raw mats even for free. Cause who cares about money? Noone does.

And yet - crafters do.

why?

I understand that you want a compensation for your effort. But the sheer greedyness of the free marked wont make it into my head. Its absurd.

 

NPC ships are crap. I sailed one - sold one. They are only there for a cheap transition if you need a ship quick and dirty.

Maybe if you want to abuse the fire mechanic to bits.

saying theat they reduce the will to craft good ships is not real.

Even if they were for free I would not sail them. Crafted ships are so much better.

In PvP you need a goo ship. For me that means a gold ship. period.

 

 

Our clan produces under production cost. raw mats even for free

 

Mine too, most clan does.... that works in the same direction as NPC low-cost , artificial containment of costs,  and  also means  that a BIG part of the players are out of the market system.....

 

But why the heck would you then want even more money - for nothing?

 

Money is good for nothing..by itself (as in real world) but is the exchanging tool, for labor hours, and no-craftable commodities (yellow marines anyone? ) ..resource extracting /flag buying/repair kit /etc.. cost are now negligible as now by grace of  our "cannon printing machines" but if/when they are gone we will see this very differently

 

 

NPC ships are crap

 

In small PvP for sure, but remember they shoot same cannons as our yellow top-of-the-line ships when you enter a big battle....and -returning to on-topic - if they are crap why the need to cut the duras making them so much crappy?

[Quineloe]

So you basically want to beat your opponent into total defeat, unable to play.

What do you do then? Look at the world map and enjoy yourself that all those pixels are in your color?

If you can't defeat basic 4th rates with your exceptional 4th rates and 6-8 upgrades on them, then you're not very good.

 

Or maybe you're just assuming your enemy is using shop 4th rates and you don't even know. Because most 4th rates we capture in port battles are player crafted.

 

Your two suggestions are wild stabs in the dark. Neither of this would do anything about the insane price of mid grade notes. Craft your own. This is not a sandbox, there are no optional parts of gameplay. To compete, you must both be a crafter and a fighter.

[Mrdoomed]

the problem lies within the players and the players only.

If the greedy crafters would have any sense of fairness they would offer ships at prices everyone could afford.

But money isnt worth a bit and hence crafters think its legid to ask 100+k for a small vessel.

which they produced for 50+k.

Its all because of the mentality:

crafting hours cost money and I will charge 1billion gold more for each frikkin labor hour I put into this vessel.

I am fed up with this thinking.

But I know noone will change it.

I put a cheap bellona into the shop. only than one of these greedy "enter curse word here" bought it to re-sell it later with 4 times the price.

Its not within the game.

Its within the gamer's thinking.

___________

rant end!

The problem is with the players but not the crafters charging the price. Its the people paying it. You must not understand how a free market works so ill give you a quick run down.

The market sells at what the public will pay. The end.

[Eishen]

The problem is with the players but not the crafters charging the price. Its the people paying it. You must not understand how a free market works so ill give you a quick run down.

The market sells at what the public will pay. The end.

 

Much oversimplified     ...and this market is not really a free market (  IMHO it should not be one for the sake of new players and playability),  but at the end when there is no monopoly buyers have last word on prize

[Mrdoomed]

Much oversimplified ...and this market is not really a free market ( IMHO it should not be one for the sake of new players and playability), but at the end when there is no monopoly buyers have last word on prize

Yes i over simplified it on purpose because its a game. But in its simplicity it is correct. If people pay it it then people will sell it. And there can NEVER be a monopoly in this game as long as everyone is allowed to make ships and craft. High pricing is not a monopoly.

You can take a 99%er or communist take on it and set minimum and maximum allowed pricing and destroy even a video game economy if you want but ive never seen it work in real life or a game.

For instance last week i sold a 3rd rate that ive seen go for 3-4 million gold before for only 800k. I sold it in abkut 10 minutes. That means I used the market to undersell everyone and keep my product moving. If i chose to keep doing that it would drive the market down just as much as people not buying the over priced ships but it starts to get complicated so i just broke it down.

Just like in real life if something cost to much dont buy it. The market sees that and things go on sale. A video game economy is the last thing the devs need to worry about.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Mrdoomed

[EL LOCO]

I would say no NPC ships to buy except traders.   

[Guest]

Why to exclude traders? I would say all ships (except basic cutters) have to be build by crafters.