LeBoiteux
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Posts posted by LeBoiteux
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Dans Une histoire de Pirates de Jean-Pierre Moreau (étude sérieuse), il y a la liste des flibustiers et des pirates français ou qui ont travaillé pour la France entre 1520 et 1725 (p. 471-475).
Ordre chronologique et 10zaines de noms...
Pas le temps ce soir de regarder et de comparer aux noms déjà cités.
Mais si quelqu'un a le livre ou une bibliothèque pas loin...
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Lots of beautiful french, english, dutch (...) nautical charts and map : http://gallica.bnf.fr (a french online library)
Example : a french 1749 nautical chart of La Martinique (a french Caribbean island) :
Chart under Gallica's licence (non-commercial uses are free of charge) : http://gallica.bnf.fr/html/conditions-use-gallicas-contents
PS : a collection of small-scale nautical charts (one for each Caribbean island like this one) would be great
.PS 2 : to look for charts on this french site, you may need some french words such as : carte nautique, Antilles, XVIII ème siècle and french names of the Islands...
You can also type english words for english items...
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+1. Belles recherches. Continuez.
Va falloir faire une synthèse et créer un post sur le forum international pour les mettre en valeur.
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I'll post this question in here since I'm sure it will be asked ad nasuem at one point or another but:
How are shallows actually being implemented? If you ground your ship in shallows i'm assuming you will take some form of damage, but will it just be a slowing effect upon your ship or will you be truly stuck fast and have to kedge your ship off the ground?
Right now, we don't know how they'll be implemented. We do know that there is a crude shallows indicator in the game from released screenshots, but that's all that's been shown so far.
Shallow waters are an exciting issue in terms of gameplay !
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Plan is not the same ship. Image Fixed.
You'd better check before that La Néréide's plan isn't subject to a copyright law.
Sometimes, a simple hyperlink (with a big title) is a much better option...
In that case : http://capebretonsmagazine.com/modules/publisher/item.php?itemid=3811
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I did some online research. No big news but some of the informations on which I have relied seem to be misleading :
The shipbuilder
- Blaise Ollivier was born in 1701 and built his first ship, Le Saint Louis, in 1722, so he couldn't have built Le Chameau in 1717 (at the age of 16)...
- He traveled in England and Holland in 1737 where he observed in the yards. Then he wrote a naval treatise (published in 1743). As Le Chameau is said to be an adaptation / improvement of english and dutch plans, the french flute should have been built after his trip in 1737. And Ollivier died in 1746...
One web contributor suggested 1744 for the flute... : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion:Chameau_(voilier)
It could be that.
On the other hand, Surcouf, Ollivier seems to have worked a bit in Rochefort but longer in Brest. He worked in Brest in 1737. Chances are Le Chameau was built there.
His treatise :
Despite I haven't read it, Ollivier's treatise seems to be interesting :
- first because it presents plans of english and dutch ships (always interesting, isn't it ?) :
see pictures / plans of the Twikkelo (1725) and the Nottingham at ancre.fr's web site (see below).
- Furthermore, these plans seem quite similar to Le Chameau's...
However, if anyone had this treatise or could get it, it could be great.
Ancre's introduction to the treatise :
"In 1737, Blaise Ollivier, Master Shipwright at Brest, was ordered by Maurepas, the French Minister of the navy, to go to England and Holland in order to find out everything possible about how ships were build there, and what France might usefully imitate. Ollivier's secret mission lasted nearly five months, during which time he visited all the major naval dockyards of both country except Plymouth. At the conclusion he wrote (it)"
Treatise at :
http://www.musee-marine.fr/content/traite-de-construction (Bibliothèque du Musée de la Marine)
http://ancre.fr/en/ouvrages-de-base-en/43-remarques-sur-la-marine-des-anglais-et-hollandais.html
Source :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blaise-Joseph_Ollivier
http://gallica.bnf.fr/searchInPeriodique?arkPress=cb32860483w%2Fdate&spe=blaise+ollivier
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Next the book of Joël Pierre, who identify all ships in Rochefort, it does not found in the period of the game the ship name le Chameau.
Just a "chatte" (I do not know the term in English) of 100tx built in 1738 and write off the lists in 1757 and then as a barge built in 1836 and write off lists in 1878.
English term for "Chatte" must be "Catboat", that is a "cat-rigged sailboat, a sailing vessel characterized by a single mast carried well forward, i.e. near the front of the boat".
I guess your "chatte" correspond to the Catboat mentioned at http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=22227
I don't know whether or not the flute was built in Rochefort :
- To Alex Storm (the treasure hunter who found the wreckage), the flute was built in Rochefort by Blaise Ollivier : e. g. http://capebretonsmagazine.com/modules/publisher/item.php?itemid=3811
- But, some say (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion:Chameau_(voilier)) :
- one Flute was built in 1716 in Hollande,
- another in 1717 at Brest by Hubac,
- and Ollivier's one would have been built in... 1744.
A real mystery
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I agree with maturin, we are in dire need of more small vessels.
+1.
What we could have in the Caribbean, is a nice brigantine. Brigantine were the second most popular type of vessel built in the American colonies before 1775 (source), so it definitely fits the setting
+1.
In the Caribbean, we could also have a Barque longue as a small XVIIth-century vessel :
She seems to have been widely used by french sailors in Martinique in late XVIIth-century.
Once, french pirate François l'Olonnais built one.
George Spurre, an english freebooter, and the dutch buccaneer Laurens de Graff who both participated in the sack of Vera Cruz in May 1683 notably navigated on barques longues.
(source : Exquemelin, History of the Bouccaneers of America)
On the other hand, the french explorer Cavelier de la Salle took one for his expedition in the Gulf of Mexico (1684).
Advantages : shallow draught and high maneuverability for coastal navigation ; small crew.
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Plans are obviously not the same ship.
I found on internet the hypothesis of several contemporary flutes called Le Chameau (in french) : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discussion:Chameau_(voilier)
Furthermore, threedecks.org identify three Chameau (one catboat without any gun and two "fifth-rate Flutes" with 40 and 36 guns) before Chapman's 1765 plan : http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=ships_search
The longitudinal view of La Néréide, Chameau's sister ship according to A. Storm, looks more accurate than Chapman's plan for a 40-guns flute : http://capebretonsmagazine.com/modules/publisher/item.php?itemid=3811
with her two gun-decks and 42 guns : http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=11302
Anybody knows ?
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Monograph of L'Aurore with pictures and plans (31 drawings) : http://ancre.fr/en/monographies-en/23-monographie-fregate-legere-l-aurore-1697.html
Excerpt in french (with drawings on p. 2) : Download (370.3k)
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French Flute "Le Chameau" (Camel), 1717
Launched : 1717
Fate : 1725
(sank after being swept onto the rocks by a storm)
Displacement : 540-650 tons
Keel : 135 ft (41,1 m)
Beam : 31 ft (9,4 m)
Draught : 15 ft (4,6 m)
Armament : 44 guns
(twenty 12-pounder cannons (lower gun deck), two more in the stern and twenty-two 6-pounders (upper deck))
"Due to the threat of war (...) large flutes like the Chameau were fitted to carry extra artillery
so they could travel the seas without naval escort.
In fact, (she) often served as an escort for other vessels."
Designed by french naval architect Blaise Ollivier, after visiting English and Dutch shipyards :
"Combining French construction principles with those he had observed in the yards along the Thames and the Zuiderzee,
(he) modified the ship's lines and redistributed shipboard batteries, making for a faster vessel with increased cargo capacity."
"One of the fastest and best equipped ships in the royal navy of France."
Assignment : carriage of supplies, people and funds from France to Quebec and Louisbourg.
She had aboard a number of French dignitaries, including the new Intendant of Canada, Me de Chazel.
Wreckage located by treasure Hunter Alex Storm in 1965.
Alex Storm's ship model
and Le Chameau's sister ship, La Néréide (1724)
(poor quality pictures)
http://capebretonsmagazine.com/modules/publisher/item.php?itemid=3811
About Le Chameau
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Chameau
http://capebretonsmagazine.com/modules/publisher/item.php?itemid=3809
http://www.blupete.com/Hist/Gloss/Chameau.htm
http://cbmuseums.tripod.com/LMM.html
(Model pictures and plans needed...)
About camels...
Seven ships of the Royal Navy have borne the name HMS Camel, after the camel.
( source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Camel )
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A "Ship camel" is an "external floatation tank that can be fitted to a ship to increase her buoyancy or reduce her draught".
Invented in 1690 by Maeuwis Meindertsz Bakker (Amsterdam).
( source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_Camel )
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To me, devs should put in lots of random events of every kind (dangers or opportunities) to stimulate gamer's interest :
- political events : changes of alliances, declarations of wars...
- meteorological events : storms...
- ship events : mutiny, crew illness ; random ship damages ;
- events with npc : combat vs pirates, diplomacy with natives...
- events related to navigation : sandy / rocky shoals, navigational instruments failures...
- quests for explorers (on the basis of clues, such as rumors, travel stories...)
- Etc.
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I meant the parking lot thing that (I think) was directed at me.
Sorry for my misunderstanding
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I'm not sure what Henry was getting at.
I guess it was just a misunderstanding
:- Henry d'Esterre Darby and I thought that this thread was about "Depth of field", that is a real optical phenomenon related to zoom lens that occurs in real life in movies and photography,
(I think DOF is purposeless in NA, except for the telescope view)
- while Wind was talking about "Tilt-Shift", an artistic effect for photography and some games (such as Game Labs' Ultimate General Gettysburg) that artistically twists the concept of 'Depth of field'.
I don't like that effect but it's just a matter of taste... So why not as an option ?
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To be added to the list:
Wenden, Danish 3rd Rate 1706 (With Plans)
French 2nd rate 'L Ambitieux' 1680 (With Plans)
Holland Frigate 1697 'Petr and Pavel' (With Plans)
French ship of the line 'La Sirene', 1690 (With Plans)
Swedish frigate 32 Guns 'Birger Jarl', +/-1813 (With Plans)
Dutch armed merchant ship 'Kalmar Nyckel' 1625 (With Plans)
HMS Bounty 1784 - Transport & Exploration (with plans)
Spanish 62 guns 4th Rate 'San Fernando',1725, (With Plans)
HMS Endeavour 1768 - Transport & Exploration (with plans)
French barque "La Belle"1680 (With Plans)
The Famous 'Van Hoorn' Snow (With Plans)
Russian Frigate 1669 'Orel' (With Plans)
Dutch ship "De Zeven Provinciën" 1665 (with plans)List updated:
Van Hoorn 1700 Britain Trade ship Unrated
Beagle 1832 Britain Trade Ship UnratedEndeavour 1768 Britain Trade ship UnratedSan Fernando 1725 Spain Ship of the line 4thRoyal Louis 1780 France Ship of the line 1stL'Ambitieux 1680 France Ship of the line 2ndLa Sirene 1690 France Warship/Trader 3rdLe Cygne 1806 France Small Warship 6thDe Zeven Provincien 1665 Dutch Ship of the line 2ndPetr and Pavel 1697 Holland Frigate 5thKalmar Nyckel 1625 Dutch Trade Ship UnratedBirger Jarl 1813 Sweden Frigate 5thOrel 1669 Russia Small Warship UnratedWenden 1706 Danish Ship of the line 3rd4/22/2015Hi, is there a reason why French barque "La Belle"1680 (With Plans) isn't added ?
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The problem with the17-th century ships is that their armament is rather weak compared to the ships from Napoleonic era (as most of the ships in the game are from that era)
Most of the ships in the pre-alpha game are from Napoleonic era. I don't know whether or not it prefigures the content of the finished product.
I don't think so : "Ship line-up: 16th Century to the end of Napoleonic Wars" (http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/11-game-introduction/?p=20)
And I personally hope not because I prefer XVII-th century ships because of... their naval sculptures, their aesthetics.
It is a problem that needs to be solved as I don't know how ships from 17-th century can compete with more modern ones.
It should be easily solved by a "simple" system of ship class/ranks (with the planned instanced battles), shouldn't it ?
(e.g. 1st Rate XVIIth-century ships vs 2nd or 3rd Rate XIXth-century ships, if ever XIXth-century ships are really that overpowered (of that I don't know)).
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Dans la mesure ou nous sommes de toute facon dans les caraibes, que souhaiteriez vous pouvoir faire en tant qu'explorateur?
Par exemple et pour rêver, en dehors de ce que tu mentionnes :
1) organiser l'expédition en amont, notamment en :
- faisant une recherche rapide (à partir de rumeurs, de récits de voyage...) pour localiser l'objectif de l'exploration : un site archéologique, des artefacts anciens, une épave, un trésor, une espèce rare (plante, animal...),
- recrutant un équipage selon ses compétences,
- choisissant un bateau d'explo en fonction des besoins en termes de tirant d'eau, d'espace de stockage... (gabare, barque...)
2) explorer à terre pour cartographier et trouver les artefacts,
3) faire de la diplomatie avec des tribus pour le ravitaillement,
4) gérer l'équipage (notamment son moral et son expérience) pour éviter casses, mutinerie, naufrage...
5) devoir traverser un grand nombre de dangers aléatoires (tempêtes, bancs de sables, npc pirates, casses du bateau ou des instruments de navigation, maladie de l'équipage...).
Bref : risquer de perdre son bateau autant qu'un officier de la Royale ou qu'un pirate...
6) gérer le stock de nourriture et d'eau pour l'équipage (en lien avec le moral),
7) gérer l'état du rafiot (en termes de couts et de risques),
8) choisir ou non d'être escorté,
9) une navigation (simplifiée ?) aux instruments,
... et on peut surement trouver 20 autres idées...
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Tilt-shift is above all an effect for (2D) photography. As an artistic effect, it is a matter of taste...
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilt–shift_photography)
So why not in NA as an option in the graphics panel ?
Personally, I've disabled this option while playing Ultimate General Gettysburg...
(Pictures : http://www.ultimategeneral.com/blog/ultimate-general-pre-release-patch-3)
To me, it looks too artificial.
The map of Ultimate General Gettysburg has looked quite "2D". And UG Gettysburg Devs wrote in patch notes :
"Tilt-Shift: We’ve deployed the first version of our unique image filter that makes the battlefield appear more 3D"
To them, it was a way of "enhancing 3D depth".
Not sure that is necessary for NA.
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That would be the only place it would have a use, and even then, only with regards to objects with disparate distance. E.g. you're focused on a distant ship, and a closer ship comes into your field of view - that closer ship would be out of focus until you refocused your telescope to account for the change in distance. It would be immersive to have a short delay before the differently distanced ship came into focus, but I'm not sure it's gameplay enhancing for now.
That's it.
By the way, I think that would be just a cosmetic enhancement but a quite immersive one.
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Depth of field itself is completely pointless outside of a movie or photograph, and even then, DOF is only used in limited circumstances, namely to draw the eye to the main subject/character of the movie/photo. If you want to look out across a valley, do you focus your eye on a flower in the foreground? Or do you ignore that flower and focus your eye on the valley?
Since the game doesn't know where you are looking at that moment, there is no way to intelligently control what is in focus. DOF is NOT a function of distance, it is a function of where you are focusing your camera. Your eyes flat out don't work that way - you don't look at a distant mountain while keeping your eyes focused on a nearby flower that is now in your peripheral vision. The reduced detail, not focus but detail, of a distant object is what makes the view true to life. Intentionally blurring part of the field of view in the game isn't a good idea.
+1. That's why I was talking about the telescope view :
DOF could be great for telescope view (if historically accurate).
But I don't know whether or not XVIII / XIXth-century telescopes generated DOF...
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But you can't see detailed ship a mile away, can you? We talking blur objects in far distances. Our eye can't pick details on far mountains.
I guess any weather condition plays a role too.
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But you can't see detailed ship a mile away, can you? We talking blur objects in far distances. Our eye can't pick details on far mountains.
Isn't it a matter of size (of the object) and distance, and not of DOF ?
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DOF could be great for telescope view (if historically accurate). Otherwise, I don't really see the point of it : most of the time, captains will focus on long range target.
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Tout ce qui n'est pas dit avant n'arrive jamais ensuite.
Tu as une autre lecture que moi sur le développement de ce jeu, mais tu as peut-être plus d'info que moi.
Et mon analyse est toute personnelle puisque je ne suis pas dans le secret des dieux.
Moi, ce que je vois, c'est une politique des petits pas : on teste en pré-alpha le système de combat, puis (bientôt) la mise à l'eau de bateaux dans un monde plus vaste, puis il y a aura une troisième, une quatrième.. étapes... etc.
Le développement semble suivre de petites avancées très prudentes et je n'ai pas l'impression de tester un jeu à chaque fois mais de tester une mécanique de ce jeu à la fois, ce qui ne préjuge(rait) pas du résultat final.
Mais c'est "Just my opinion", comme disent les anglisch
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Changer le nom des npc français
in Naval Action (en français)
Posted · Edited by LeBoiteux
C'est ça.
NPC = Non Playable Character. Personnage géré par l'IA, ici des bateaux et des batteries de canons sur la côte.