LeBoiteux

La Palme (translation : 'The palm Leaf' or 'The Laurels') French 4-pdr Corvette 12 guns 1744 Armament (historical and in-game suggestion) : 12 x 4-pdr Broadside weight = 24 pds (= Lynx) Alternatives dimensions (pieds du Roi) : Sources : Boudriot p. 19 + plan above Length between perpendiculars : 85' 5" Breadth overall to outside of frame : 22' 8" Depth in hold from top of the keel to the line of the deck at the middle line : 10' 6" Sources : Boudriot p. 16, SH 321 or 324 Length between perpendiculars : 85' Breadth overall to outside of frame : 22' 6" Depth in hold from top of the keel to the line of the deck at the middle line : 10' 4" Source : threedecks.org Length of Gundeck : 84' 0" Length of Keel : 76'0" Breadth : 22'0" Depth in hold : 9' 0" Burthen : 120 ton Built at Brest (France) by Joseph-Louis Ollivier at the age of... 15. Building features : hull with quite a flat bottom and substantial tumblehome, no forecastle, upper part of the hull is low above the waterline, displacement : 265 tx, her general design is modern for its time. Drawing of the naval sculpture by Caffieri : French Archives, D1 68, f°2, cl. 7289 Sources : Boudriot, Historique de la corvette, La Créole, 1993, p. 16-19. Plans (French Archives) : SH 324, p. 189 ; 2G2 n° 204 ('La Palme, 4-pdr Corvette carrying 10 guns, c. 1744, unsigned') https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=15577 Sister ships : L'Anémone and L'Amarante, 1747 Thx to @Sella22 !

For the Challenge #2 (ship sloops) : La Palme (translation : 'The palm Leaf' or 'The Laurels') French 4-pdr Corvette 12 guns 1744 Armament (historical and in-game suggestion) : 12 x 4-pdr Broadside weight = 24 pds (= Lynx) See info :

Suggestion for in-game armament : 20 x 9-pdr (90 pds = USS Niagara) ? Suggestion for in-game armament : 24 x 9-pdr (108 pds > HMS Pandora) ? Nice ships

Great !!

For the Challenge #2 (a three-masted ship with an armament on gun deck : 12 x 4-pdr, 12 x 6-pdr, 14 x 6-pdr, 16 x 6-pdr, 18 x 6-pdr, 20 x 6-pdr or 22 x 6-pdr. No armed QD/fc) : La Panthère (HMS Amazon after capture) French 6-pdr light Frigate 20 guns 1744 Historical armament : 20 x 6-pdr Suggestion for in-game armament : 20 x 6-pdr (60 pds) Information :

La Sardoine 1757 French 4-pdr Corvette 12-18 guns Built by J.-L. Coulomb in Nantes. Captured in 1761 by the British 5th-Rate brig-sloop HMS Alarm (32 guns + 12 swivel-guns, 1758) and renamed HMS Sardoine. La Sardoine as taken off, prior to fitting as a 14-gun ship sloop http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83948.html Plan showing the quarterdeck, forecastle, upper deck, and after platforms and magazine for La Sardoine Second plan of La Sardoine as taken off, prior to fitting as a 14-gun ship sloop. Note that there are no waterlines represented on this one. Historical armament : As she's been pierced by 18 portholes since French building, she could carry up to 18 x 4-pdr + swivel guns. and nothing excludes such an armament during war time. Known armament from sources : French service : Built with 12 x 4-pdr (Boudriot, Historique de la Corvette) 14 x 4-pdr + 6 Swivel guns (31 pds) (threedecks.org) British service : 14 x 4-pdr (Ian McLaughlhan, Sloop of War 1650-1763) 14 × 4-pdr + 10 ½-pdr Swivel guns (30, 5 pds) (threedecks.org) Suggestion for in-game armament : 12-18 x 4-pdr (giving a broadside weight = 24-36 pds), filling the 'gap' between in-game Lynx (8 x 6-pdr = 24 pds) and the Pickle / Privateer / Cutter (12 x 6-pdr = 36 pds). Nota : a 'sardoine' (sard or sardius in English) is a 'yellow or brownish-red semi-precious stone consisting of a variety of chalcedony'. Dimensions Dimensions of 4-pdr Corvettes (16 guns) made by Coulomb in the same year (see below) (pieds du Roi) : Length between perpendiculars : 100' Breadth overall to outside of frame : 25' Depth in hold from top of the keel to the line of the deck at the middle line : 12, 6' Dimensions of La Sardoine (before British refit) from threedecks.org (pieds du Roi) : Length of gundeck : 91'0" Breadth : 23'6" Depth in hold : 9'6" Displacement : c. 300 ton Burthen : 165 ton Dimensions of HMS Sardoine (after refit) from threedecks.org (imperial feet) : Length of gundeck : 94' 4 ½ " Length of keel : 78' 9 ¼ " Breadth : 24' 8 ½ " Depth in hold : 10' 1 ½ " Burthen : 255 74/94 tons BM Sources : J. Boudriot, Historique de la Corvette, p. 30 Ian McLauglhan, Sloop of War 1650-1763 http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=15602 http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/83948.html Extract of Ian McLauglhan's Sloop of War 1650-1763 about La Sardoine : "[..] was built at Nantes to the design of Jacques-Luc Coulomb. She had four sisters;in fact the French Navy commisioned nine corvettes designed by Coulomb, most listed as 100ft lenght on deck. [...] If the corvettes produced under the supervision of Blaise Ollivier appear extreme in hull design, they are nothing compared to Sardoine, whose sections exhibit an exaggerated version of the earlier designs. Sardoine was builit thirteen years later after La Palme and in addition to her highly developed hull, she was about 10ft longer and was pierced for nine guns a side, though armed with only twelve 4pdrs. She was commissioned into the Royal Navy at Portsmouth in 1761 and given an extra pair of 4pdrs. The waterlines in the half-breadth plan provide a clear view of the remarkably fine ends of this vessel, particulary that of the run. Her sheer plan shows the French preference for only a light degree of rake at bow and stern, but there is exaggeration in that her sternpost is actually raked forwards, Like the earlier corvettes, she has a marked degree of tumblehome which may help stability by bringing the weight of the gguns closer to the centreline but at the same time it would have made their handling difficult, possibly reducing their rate of fire; it was also less effective at dampening rolling than more 'wall-sided' designs. [...] She is shown with a raised quarterdeck and forecastle on the plan, which is dated April 1761 (ie before the prize was formally purchased), so these are probably as captured; the height underneath them is only 5ft aft and 4ft 6in forward." Contemporary 4-pdr Corvettes built by J.- L. Coulomb (from Boudriot) : Sister ships of La Sardoine according to threedecks.org : https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_class&id=535 L’Ecureuil (Nantes, 1756) La Jacinthe (Brest, 1756) La Renoncule (Nantes, 1757) L’Arc-en-ciel (?) (Brest, 1758) Voyages of La Sardoine La Sardoine sailed for la Martinique. Later, captured by the British in the Bay of Biscay. As HMS Sardoine, she then sailed for the West Indies and New York. Thx to @Sella22 and @Surcouf for their help !!!!

'Batty' ? To that extent ? As a French and non-naval geek, I might have been quite "couldn't-care-less" about the naming of this challenge . First, I thought that working on the 3 NA gaps between the Snow and HMS Pandora together could be interesting and fun. Secondly, the last time I checked navalactionwiki, all the ships between the Brig and the Niagara were said to be in-game 6th-Rates (I haven't checked it in game). And finally, I had to find a name for this challenge. Thx about the 'pdr' / 'pds' thing. Please, post (if you wish).

On the other hand, I still hear roaring coming from the back of the shipyard...

Summing up of the proposals Gap 1 : Snow (HMS Ontario) - Ratlesnake heavy Gap 2 : Ratlesnake heavy - USS Niagara Gap 3 : USS Niagara - HMS Pandora

Summing up of the proposals so far Challenge 1 : fill in the gaps Challenge 2 : ship sloops Challenge 3 : too small but... Challenge 4 : the Challengers (New challenge) Plans of brigs, snows or fore-and-aft rigged ships that could challenge those currently implemented, ie carrying the same armament : 8 x 6-pdr, 12 x 4-pdr, 12 x 6-pdr, 16 x 6-pdr, 18 x 6-pdr, 20 x 6-pdr or 22 x 6-pdr.

Lesson # 1 : best definition of a Frenchman (1'18" - 1'34) in French

It'd be nice to have a post about her in the 6-th rate plan challenge thread, not in the current Small ships thread, as Proserpina : in-game 20 x 6pdr (or 24-pdr (C)) + 2 x 9-pdr = 69 pdr (gap 1)

From Boudriot, Historique de la Corvette, p. 30 : That and the sister ships might explain why Boudriot mention that Coulomb made, at the same time, corvettes carrying 12 x 4-pdr and 16 x 4-pdr.

Very interesting report. Thx !!!

@Sella22 found the solution (at least in part) : there are 16 portholes + 2 for chasing on the British plan of the Sardoine. Congrats ! More precisely, I'm doubtful about the number of guns of La Sardoine. Boudriot (Historique de la corvette, p. 30) says : 12 x 4-pdr Three decks quoting Demerliac says : 14 x 4-pdr + 6 perriers for La Sardoine and 14 x 4 + 10 1/2-pdr swivel for HMS Sardoine The British plan (said to have been drawn before refit) shows 16 portholes + 2 chasers. Were some unarmed ? If anyone could check Alain Demerliac (Nomenclature des Navires Français de 1715 à 1774) or any other source, it'd be great. Same for the French dimensions of La Sardoine.

@Malachi's proposals. Please, check my mistakes (growing in numbers lately ) : Chapman's proposal for a 20*6-pounder frigate : in-game 20 x 6 (ship sloop challenge) Dutch Proserpina : in-game 20 x 6pdr (or 24-pdr (C)) + 2 x 9-pdr = 69 pdr (gap 1 of the *cough* 6-th rate plan challenge *cough* ) Proposal for a danish 18*8-pounder frigate : in-game 18 x 9-pdr = 81 pdr (gap 2 of the *cough* *cough* 6-th rate plan challenge *cough* *cough* ) La Guirlande/Cygnet. 18 6-pounders : in-game 18 x 6-pdr (ship sloop challenge) La Sardine. 16*6-pounders : in-game 16x6-pdr = in-game Brig (Fair America) Amrum and L'Amarante (12 * 4-pounder) : 12 x 4-pdr = 24 pdr = in-game Lynx and basic Cutter What a nice bundle of ships !!!! Shouldn't I turn Challenge 2 into a "Give a challenger to the in-game ships" or add a 4th challenge ?

Comme Sans-Papyrus, le voyageur clandestin d'Astérix au Service de sa Majesté, qui essaye de passer chez les Anglais dans la barque d'Astérix ?

hint #1 : g-a-p-s

I have two issues about the characteristics of La Sardoine (our @Surcouf is on the case). The first one is her French dimensions before refitting par the British. My only source right now is threedecks. The second one is... is... guess what... (mini-challenge for all except Surcouf who knows it)

As a reminder, the 3 Plan Challenges below are open to ships from every nation. Their focus is NA gaps and armaments, not nationality. First of all, because filling all the NA gaps with only underrepresented nations sounds to me like Impossible mission. Secondly, because in such challenges made primarily for fun and not directly for implementation, it's impossible from a naval and historical perspective to give French/British/US ships a total miss. Sorry but, for example, I can't talk about small 3-masted ships without posting French corvette(s). http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/23228-small-ship-plan-challenge/ http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/23179-6th-rate-plan-challenge/ http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/23092-looking-for-light-frigates-and-i-found/ Those interested in challenges narrowing the number of nations are free to create their own challenges based on the same model or not. I won't make any. Have fun all. Thx to all the contributors.

or maybe those corvettes come from one of those three disgusting nations I don't even dare to name ? And you are ashamed... You deserve that feeling ! Shame on you

Then post plans that meet the specs of this thread. This thread is about challenges among the community, not about implementation in NA. It's just a little game with rules (that might also help NA development someday if interesting plans show up). Challenge 1 and 3 is open to any rigs. Challenge 2 is actually about three-masted small ships. Just a word about rigs and small ships in NA : out of 12 small ships in game, 11 are brigs, snow or fore-and-aft rigged. USS Rattlesnake is the only 3-masted ships.IMHO NA would be even funnier with more corvettes. Besides, from a naval / historical / 'Wow ! she's lovely' perspective, the presence in game of some corvettes and light frigates would be almost self-evident. But this debate is not the purpose of this thread.