Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Right now you mirror XP across all servers and only XP. That's great but you should really mirror everything across the PVP servers as well. Let me restate I do not want everything mirrored to and from the pve servers. Mirror everything only on the PVP servers. That way groups can pick whichever server suits them for that day in terms of activity and space but they aren't getting screwed. I've had to play on other servers besides my main and I feel like I'm waisting alot of my time. Spend time capturing that Pirate Frigate on PvP1 EU last night only to have it locked and have to login to PvP1 US where I only have a yacht. Other times a majority of my clan is on PVP1 EU and a couple late guys get on and find questions so they have to jump on different server by themselves. Let's not even talk about the imbalances that are starting to show on some of the US servers. Also only talking ships, gold, and XP. Not talking ports. Edited January 27, 2016 by Puppet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 This is done for very obvious PVP and port battles reasons, if we mirror everything clans and player groups can exploit this to avoid blockades, use it to rofl stomp on multiple servers etc. edited the post a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) No they can't. I said do not mirror ports. I also said only XP gold and ships. So your blockaid thing isn't valid either. If a group of 25 vets want to go over and spend a day capturing 25 Connie that will be easy for them. The point is the little guys and the smaller groups who are getting screwed by the server situation currently. Plus it would actually have the opposite effect because it would make the PVP community one. If Brits are getting slaughtered on US 2 you don't think the big Brit Clans from EU 1 wouldn't login and do port battles there for the challenge and the fights? Edited January 27, 2016 by Puppet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Ok take this, a port is being blockaded, the port has all the clans first rates in them, what they could do to avoid the blockade is take their first rates out on another server, log back in to the first one, buy a flag and then attack a port effectively avoiding the blockade 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 Flags don't mirror. Mirroring happens once every 24 hours. Next. Plus lock a ship to a server for 24 hours. If you get in it that ship is locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Flags don't mirror. Mirroring happens once every 24 hours. Next. Plus lock a ship to a server for 24 hours. If you get in it that ship is locked. Then the devs would have to merge the databases every day, which is a difficult and time consuming progress, which means way longer maintanance times and pissed off people, also my example would go like this: start of at port blockaded on server 1, log out and then in to server 2, sail over to another port on server 2, log out then in to server 1, buy a flag and you have gone past the blockade no problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirror452 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Flags don't mirror. Mirroring happens once every 24 hours. Next. Plus lock a ship to a server for 24 hours. If you get in it that ship is locked. On Server 1 Britain captures a port. On Server 2 France captured the same port. What do you do? (Leave it... Merging or mirroring servers is not the solution.) Edited January 27, 2016 by mirror452 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 Then the devs would have to merge the databases every day, which is a difficult and time consuming progress, which means way longer maintanance times and pissed off people, also my example would go like this: start of at port blockaded on server 1, log out and then in to server 2, sail over to another port on server 2, log out then in to server 1, buy a flag and you have gone past the blockade no problem. Like I said in my post you quoted ships are locked for 24 hours so the blockade is still successful. They already merge because of XP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westgate Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 What you are proposing would be a logistical nightmare and would take time away from important things like working on more features for the game. Are the queues annoying? Yeah, they are. But they are just something you have to deal with. The current system right now with servers is fine. The only thing they should merge would be gold, but I can see why they wouldn't because it could be abused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Like I said in my post you quoted ships are locked for 24 hours so the blockade is still successful. They already merge because of XP. well part 1 allready means that it doesnt matter, it is just too time consuming to do it, even once a week would be too often. once a year i think would be pushing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 On Server 1 Britain captures a port. On Server 2 France captured the same port. What do you do? (Leave it... Merging or mirroring servers is not the solution.) Again I've already said ports aren't mirrored.onky ships which are locked for 24 hour soon as you get in it, gold, and XP. It's not ideal but it's better than any other option that's been introduced and def. Than oh well your screwed if you can't get into the server your stuff or friends are on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Again I've already said ports aren't mirrored.onky ships which are locked for 24 hour soon as you get in it, gold, and XP. It's not ideal but it's better than any other option that's been introduced and def. Than oh well your screwed if you can't get into the server your stuff or friends are on. Note, i do not work with databases, but from what i have heard from other forum members is that merging databases is a complicated and long process, either the servers need to be using the same database, hence the ports would also be mirrored, or they would have to merge the databases every day meaning longer server maintanance, more time wasted by the devs and overall i would imagine more displeased costumers as i guarantee mistakes will be made in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 You know what they say when one assumes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 You know what they say when one assumes? well then, give me a solution to the problems i have stated, as you have not done that once, you have simply ignored them.(edit: regarding databases that is) edit2: also if wait times are really a problem, you and your friends should consider moving to PVP 2 or 3 permenantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) I've answered all of your valid quetions/objections. You admitted yourself you don't know anything about database. Your one objective remaining is the time for a database merger on a larger scale than they already doing. Until a admin says it will take to long your talking from assumption based only on what other people who could or could not have a clue what their actually talking about. Just to count. Ports. Flags. Moving ships around blockaid. So that's three off top of my head I've addressed with solutions that have been raised so to say I've ignored all objectives is clearly false. Edit. Also speaking of solutions. I have yet to hear anything from you solution wise that's better. Edited January 27, 2016 by Puppet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I've answered all of your valid quetions/objections. You admitted yourself you don't know anything about database. Your one objective remaining is the time for a database merger on a larger scale than they already doing. Until a admin says it will take to long your talking from assumption based only on what other people who could or could not have a clue what their actually talking about. Just to count. Ports. Flags. Moving ships around blockaid. So that's three off topic of my head I've addressed with solutions that have been raised so to say I've ignored all objectives is clearly false. Even if you just humour me, come on man, i dont know much about databases, that is true, but i can fully belive that merging databases is not a 1-2-3 thing, humor me. edit: also lets not forget, if a player has done one thing on one server and another on another server, so say in server one he acquired a victory, but server 2 he didnt, what would the server have to do? well you would have to manually discard one of the parts i imagine as other wise you will have conflicts(i think), but you are still left with the question(which will take a couple of seconds, and for a couple of thousand people that is say 166 minutes(i used 5 seconds for 2000 players), that is adding way more time to maintanance without even actually being done merging the databases) edit2: il again say, im not the most knowledgable on databases, however i dont think things are as easy as you think, a couple assumptions is made here, and i know assumptions are bad however in this case we have nothing else to work on except your refusal to answer and my theories which are possibly wrong edit3: i suggest you read this entire thread as well: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/9021-important-information-about-the-new-eu-server/page-1 edit4: speaking of solutions, the current one is really the best one i can think of, people just have to realise that recruiting more people to pvp one is something we shouldnt be doing and we should be recruiting people to pvp 2 and 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 We both have little to zero actual knowledge on databases so to get into a discussion is pointless and waist of time that could be better spent clearing up other concerns we can discuss. Or better yet coming up with a better alternative to the concerns I brought forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 1. read the link 2. the assumptions i made are decent especially regarding conflicts, how would you handle the conflicts?(which no matter the knowledge on databases, you should realize will happen) 3. i would suspect the devs have thought through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 I love when people want to base their objectives off things they don't know. I'm not directing that towards you alone Olav but everyone. One person days it take to long just gold and XP maybe. All three are just tables. The only people who would be able to add to this discussion point are database experts, the devs, or people who've ran similar database setups and sense they don't out out that information you'd be hard pressed to find anyone with a similar setup. So let's let the devs say how hard and time consuming it will be instead of assuming we know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I love when people want to base their objectives off things they don't know. I'm not directing that towards you alone Olav but everyone. One person days it take to long just gold and XP maybe. All three are just tables. The only people who would be able to add to this discussion point are database experts, the devs, or people who've ran similar database setups and sense they don't out out that information you'd be hard pressed to find anyone with a similar setup. So let's let the devs say how hard and time consuming it will be instead of assuming we know better. ok i give up, last thing to say you got one database that says i have a victory, another one says i dont have a victory however i do have a frigate, well what the hell needs to be done? well there needs to be made a choice... this should be quite obvious imho, but oh well. edit: if it turns out i am wrong on anything, just notify me some of the people more knowledgable on databases, and il correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) I'll restate this again one more time as I've said it atleast three times. XP, gold, and ships mirrored. Ports and everything else does not mirror. Including flags and materials. A victory on one server won't mean anything on another except the gold, XP, and ship you were in or captured. During maintaince the XP and gold would be mirrored then it would mirror any ship not piloted within 24 hours. It's three tables with a check on one table for use. They are already doing one of said table. I've stated this previously several times in this thread. Edited January 27, 2016 by Puppet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlavDeng2 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 What if i sail both ships? Or, if i say sell the vic on one server wait till next maintenance, get the vic back then sell it again thus money exploit, you have not answered my concern, merely ignored it Edit: to be clear if i sail both ships, there needs to be more checks done and we achive excactly whqt we have now except with ages long maintenence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomms123 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Merging 2 databases is really time consuming if you want to make sure that it went correct. Just from the little data I can see from the files I know they use the database language SQL and the more and bigger request you do the longer it takes to complete those request. Also Puppet that also means that they need to add more data to the database which says if you have used it or not during the last 24 hours. Even more data to mirror. There is several ways to setup a system they use so I wont speculate exactly how they do it. Just from that I would say just the DB mirroring to both servers would take about 2-3 hours. That is if you make them to mirror it to one database and then transfer it over. If not then make it 4-5 hours. Edit: You dont have to be a database expert to know this, you need knowledge in the DB language they use (SQL) Edited January 27, 2016 by Tomms123 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 What if i sail both ships? Or, if i say sell the vic on one server wait till next maintenance, get the vic back then sell it again thus money exploit, you have not answered my concern, merely ignored it Now you are making things up. I have answered all of your other concerns which I even listed out for you a couple posts back. Victory in battle, database, flag, ports, ect. So if you did state this concern I did not see it. Please stop saying I'm just ignoring objectives as I'm clearly not as I've listed responses to every concern so far. The only one not actually solved is the database time and resource which I've stated the Admins will need to tell us yes it will take to much or not not a big issue to do. As for this particular concern. Let me make sure I understand you. You have a Vicon server 1. You log on after maint and onto server 2 and sell it for 1 gold. You then log off server 2 and back on server 1 where the vic is still at. You then do stuff with it. So you'd just have to treat all sales as officially taking place at the end of the day aka maintenence period. After maint the ship would be gone. Now the only real issue I see is selling same ship on multiple servers. Maybe there is a simple check to verify if that happens and deletes all but one entry in the tables or maybe that is the first real issue with mirroring PVP server. Each ship has a unique identifier which simple check could be run against for duplicates. Again we would have to see what the admins say about their database architecture and the time and resources such a task would take may or may not be worth it but only they can provide that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alejandro Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) Ships, gold and the likes shouldn't be mirrored. Only XP and even then. The problem goes as follows: Say I'm one of the crafters of my clan. My clan is on the most populous server. But hey, I'm a crafter. I could simply set up shop on one of the less populous servers, run my goods without risk, do my commerce over there, make easy money and then use that money on the main server. Or say my clan is into port captures. Port captures can pay a lot. We decide to stomp on a small server, go after easy pickings, isolated ports. Make a fortune. Bring back that money on server 1. Those are but the first few, easily observable "exploits" one could do. I'm sure creative minds would find A LOT more. Servers should be separated or merged together whenever the infrastructure allows. Having mirrors is simply asking for a catastrophe. Edited January 27, 2016 by Alejandro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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