"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.4 - for UAD v1.5.1.6

[o Barão]

6 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

 Id post screens shots, but this is playing 1.4 on a copy of the game folder, safe from steam updates.

You can print screen and upload the images to imgur or a similar service.

6 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

*edit, well this is bizarre, i try designing a new ship with 14in guns and with the exact same armor and tech applied the mk4 only weights 1060tons.

Most likely there were other changes being applied when you did the refit.

[o Barão]

BETA v5.0.6 N.A.R. changelog:

• More changes to economy to prevent or delay snowballing.
• Wealth grown slightly nerfed.
• Oil income nerfed.
• Oil income from allies nerfed.
• Important changes made to shipyard capacity and upgrades to bring them to more realistic levels.*

 

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rsqwKiBEtf1PD72XbFUkANlAXeROidYB?usp=drive_link

 

*About shipyard upgrades:

Before it would start with 500 tons/6 months to 4000 tons/24 months.

Now it is 500 tons/6 months to 3000 tons/36 months.

So longer to get what you want, but proportional in time so the player is not losing anything if he/she wants to go with a small upgrade at a time.

 

Many thanks to @flaviohc16 for the precious feedback.

[flaviohc16]

35 minutes ago, o Barão said:

 

I love to help for the balancing, you make this game playable for me, as without the mod it's too fantasy.

I can't play probably for the next week, so I'll probably wait for the NAR 1.5 update, but I will love to see how the economy and shipyard changes with these fixes.

[killjoy1941]

15 hours ago, o Barão said:

Before it would start with 500 tons/6 months to 4000 tons/24 months.

Now it is 500 tons/6 months to 3000 tons/36 months.

Awww... You mean I can't max out my shipyards by 1916 anymore? 

It's too bad I don't have the time to run a long campaign right now - I really want to see the changes. I imagine you've been having fun with all the new parts and hulls, too.

[Fangoriously]

19 hours ago, o Barão said:

You can print screen and upload the images to imgur or a similar service.

Most likely there were other changes being applied when you did the refit.

ya but its just soooo easy to post screenshots with steam links lol.

These weight increases do happen thanks to tech unlocks and what not, but this ship was laid down less than a year ago, and 3 months after it was built, the mk4 mk14 guns unlocked so it got a very early refit. This in particular was just a suspiciously large increase for seemingly only a MK change.

 

So some general questions for the mod, how are you planning to integrate some of the new models? Those proper 6in+ US guns, are they gunna replace the cruiser main guns and capital ship secondaries? And what about quads in general, is a more liberal use of them going to be allowed for secondaries, for at least certain factions?

 

I agree what you said earlier about quad inherent reload and accuracy penalties being to harsh. Like the initial -40% on accuracy only getting improved to a -15% at best, and this is pretty much limited to the 30s before you even see them. I think some French paper ships had them during WW1. Maybe an initial -25, to a -15 on intermediate, to a -10 on advanced, and all quad tech added into the tree a decade earlier. Most of the high mk quad turrets are extra wide anyway, they aren't necessarily more cramped and less workable than twin or triple turrets. They would just require that much more crew to operate the additional barrel.

 

20 hours ago, o Barão said:

Before it would start with 500 tons/6 months to 4000 tons/24 months.

Now it is 500 tons/6 months to 3000 tons/36 months.

So longer to get what you want, but proportional in time so the player is not losing anything if he/she wants to go with a small upgrade at a time.

Wait, DECRESING rate of growth for ship yard capacity? and at that rate, there's never a reason to delay gratification beyond the minimum 6 months, if there's no bonus for longer and larger expansion projects. Just, decreasing rate of growth at all, GOD WHY? With the extremely long refit times the game now has you can tie your shipyard down for 5-10 years strait modernizing ships, and by the time your done the first class refit is already obsolete again. Currently you delete 1 2in turret and it adds +6 months to the refit. I've resorted to editing my save at the start of each campaign to double everyone's capacity for the game even to be tolerable.

 

Not sure if you or anyone else has figured out were or how refits are handled, but that a feature that could use the most moding done to it. Certain things just unallowed to be changed entirely like the armor skin of the ship, a total engine swap being a 1 year time sink, secondary gun changes adding a month at most, etc. If you can literally change anything there is no reason to ever scrap capital ships, fully modernized dreadnaught 1s with radar, double gears, late armor, triple base powder and mk5 guns can pretty much be viable forever, not just excess invasion tonnage.

[o Barão]

6 hours ago, killjoy1941 said:

 imagine you've been having fun with all the new parts and hulls, too.

52 minutes ago, Fangoriously said:

So some general questions for the mod, how are you planning to integrate some of the new models? Those proper 6in+ US guns, are they gunna replace the cruiser main guns and capital ship secondaries? And what about quads in general, is a more liberal use of them going to be allowed for secondaries, for at least certain factions?

Nothing yet. I will wait a few more days before start working on importing the new models made by the devs. I also didn't look in detail all the new guns models. The only thing I know is that is going to be a little nightmare.

 

The good thing about the new ship parts is that opens many new possibilities for future updates, if I have the patience to do that. Well, me or any other modder.

 

58 minutes ago, Fangoriously said:

Wait, DECRESING rate of growth for ship yard capacity? and at that rate, there's never a reason to delay gratification beyond the minimum 6 months, if there's no bonus for longer and larger expansion projects. Just, decreasing rate of growth at all, GOD WHY? With the extremely long refit times the game now has you can tie your shipyard down for 5-10 years strait modernizing ships, and by the time your done the first class refit is already obsolete again. Currently you delete 1 2in turret and it adds +6 months to the refit. I've resorted to editing my save at the start of each campaign to double everyone's capacity for the game even to be tolerable.

 

I strongly suggest to play first one campaign with these new changes to see how it runs, and only then share feedback.☺️

 

[Lucky Kadono]

On 3/5/2024 at 7:16 PM, o Barão said:

BETA v5.0.6 N.A.R. changelog:

• More changes to economy to prevent or delay snowballing.
• Wealth grown slightly nerfed.
• Oil income nerfed.
• Oil income from allies nerfed.
• Important changes made to shipyard capacity and upgrades to bring them to more realistic levels.*

 

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1rsqwKiBEtf1PD72XbFUkANlAXeROidYB?usp=drive_link

 

*About shipyard upgrades:

Before it would start with 500 tons/6 months to 4000 tons/24 months.

Now it is 500 tons/6 months to 3000 tons/36 months.

So longer to get what you want, but proportional in time so the player is not losing anything if he/she wants to go with a small upgrade at a time.

 

Many thanks to @flaviohc16 for the precious feedback.

tho i like it more when evry nation is running 100s of ship for gigantic battles

still love the mod and will give this slower economy patch a shot

hope i can still BLITZ nations with battleship rush by 1896 wahaha

[flaviohc16]

7 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

 

Wait, DECRESING rate of growth for ship yard capacity? and at that rate, there's never a reason to delay gratification beyond the minimum 6 months, if there's no bonus for longer and larger expansion projects. Just, decreasing rate of growth at all,

I disagree with everything else, but this is correct imho, there should be an incentive for longer shipyard expansion

On the refit time, they are fine in my book

 

[NathanKell]

Ok, not sure anyone cares since no one substantively responded to the post on decompiling, but I went ahead and fixed the described bugs and weirdnesses, well all except the 0.975x factor applied to the data from the next-higher caliber. I also went ahead and changed that scaling to be the cube of the caliber change, not linear with it, since that seems to correspond better (I am obviously open to correction here, if linear really should be how it should be, or by the square of caliber change, I can do that too).

So. You'll need to install MelonLoader (installation guide) since from googling that has better il2cpp modding support at the moment, so that's what I used. Then drop the dll in linked zip into the Mods folder in your UAD folder. Note I'm including source as well as the dll (which is in bin/Release) so you can verify it's doing what it says it's doing (or if you want to see what I did). Note I had to do a very ugly hack for how Shell Velocity was included in reload time--it's just storing state based on whether ShellVelocity was called from WeaponReloadTime or not.

Fixing the 0.975x thing is nontrivial because, since you can't transpile il2cpp, I'll have to fully reimplement the GetValue functions rather than just doing prefix and postfix work on data. I mean, I guess I could touch every bit of data before and after a run, dynamically, except for the base caliber's data, but that's even worse.

 

Uh...please tell me this isn't the first code mod for UAD? Because it only took a couple evenings to decompile enough to know what to hit with the Harmony hammer, it doesn't seem that bad??

The zip: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-IUt1HGbkMBgtWoFZh2FigK8v6eDlw8d/view?usp=sharing

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Ok, not sure anyone cares since no one substantively responded to the post on decompiling...

I really don't see any meaningful issue in what you are trying to fix, or if it needs a fix in the first place, but I like to see modders using their skills in exploring new possibilities. Maybe would be wise to open a new post so that your work doesn't get lost here in the discussion, and more players can look at it and use it.

[StrikerDanger]

@o Barão can the English File from the regular mods be used with the Economy Experiment file?

[flaviohc16]

3 hours ago, StrikerDanger said:

@o Barão can the English File from the regular mods be used with the Economy Experiment file?

Yeap

[NathanKell]

22 hours ago, o Barão said:

I really don't see any meaningful issue in what you are trying to fix, or if it needs a fix in the first place, but I like to see modders using their skills in exploring new possibilities. Maybe would be wise to open a new post so that your work doesn't get lost here in the discussion, and more players can look at it and use it.

Well, one of the issues I've fixed is the issue you described upthread, regarding how if you take a turret and change its length, it will have different stats from another nation's turret that starts at that length. I.e. if you take some other country's 5" gun and make it a 5"/38, it'll have different stats from a US 5"/38 with 0 length offset.

But it's obviously fine if you want to keep the existing weirdness in the code.

I've done as you suggest and made a new thread. Thanks! Related to that, if I do end up combining it with data (since I can't imaging playing without more realistic data), and I needed to alter things from the existing NAR, would it be ok if I based some stuff off NAR's data? With full credit to you of course!

[o Barão]

BETA v5.9.0 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated for UAD 1.5.0
• English file also updated with the recent changes

IMPORTANT: This does not include the new hulls or ship parts, those will come in the next weeks.

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kXuaGBXf46rpE07OwQuqoB9dUi7evgnn

 

[o Barão]

4 hours ago, NathanKell said:

NAR, would it be ok if I based some stuff off NAR's data? With full credit to you of course!

Sure go ahead! ☺️

[o Barão]

BETA v5.9.1 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated for UAD 1.5.0 RC 8
• English file also updated with the recent changes
• Ship campaign map speed increased 0.6--»0.7 (vanilla is 0.3)
• Mod variants reduced to two, due to the new devs changes. Read more about that below.
• The new retreat AI logic is applied only to the traditional formations. In the swarm tactics variant, the AI will fight to the death in most situations.

IMPORTANT:

• This does not include the new hulls or ship parts, those will come in the next weeks.
• In the recent update RC8 these two modifiers are not being used anymore:

acc_mod_vs_tiny_ship,0.17,change-to-hit modifier vs smallest possible ship NO LONGER USED,0.5,0.065,,,,,
acc_mod_vs_huge_ship,5.5,change-to-hit modifier vs very big ship NO LONGER USED,1.5,,,,,,

These were important for having two different accuracy systems. Without this, there will be only the vanilla variant with a few tweaks.

 

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kXuaGBXf46rpE07OwQuqoB9dUi7evgnn

 

 

[NathanKell]

3 hours ago, o Barão said:

BETA v5.9.1 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated for UAD 1.5.0 RC 8
• English file also updated with the recent changes
• Ship campaign map speed increased 0.6--»0.7 (vanilla is 0.3)
• Mod variants reduced to two, due to the new devs changes. Read more about that below.
• The new retreat AI logic is applied only to the traditional formations. In the swarm tactics variant, the AI will fight to the death in most situations.

IMPORTANT:

• This does not include the new hulls or ship parts, those will come in the next weeks.
• In the recent update RC8 these two modifiers are not being used anymore:

acc_mod_vs_tiny_ship,0.17,change-to-hit modifier vs smallest possible ship NO LONGER USED,0.5,0.065,,,,,
acc_mod_vs_huge_ship,5.5,change-to-hit modifier vs very big ship NO LONGER USED,1.5,,,,,,

These were important for having two different accuracy systems. Without this, there will be only the vanilla variant with a few tweaks.

 

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kXuaGBXf46rpE07OwQuqoB9dUi7evgnn

 

 

When I get time this weekend I can see about rewriting the accuracy code in 1.5 to make use of the old params again. How _do_ you want the accuracy code to work?

[NathanKell]

11 hours ago, o Barão said:

BETA v5.9.1 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated for UAD 1.5.0 RC 8
• English file also updated with the recent changes
• Ship campaign map speed increased 0.6--»0.7 (vanilla is 0.3)
• Mod variants reduced to two, due to the new devs changes. Read more about that below.
• The new retreat AI logic is applied only to the traditional formations. In the swarm tactics variant, the AI will fight to the death in most situations.

IMPORTANT:

• This does not include the new hulls or ship parts, those will come in the next weeks.
• In the recent update RC8 these two modifiers are not being used anymore:

acc_mod_vs_tiny_ship,0.17,change-to-hit modifier vs smallest possible ship NO LONGER USED,0.5,0.065,,,,,
acc_mod_vs_huge_ship,5.5,change-to-hit modifier vs very big ship NO LONGER USED,1.5,,,,,,

These were important for having two different accuracy systems. Without this, there will be only the vanilla variant with a few tweaks.

 

Link: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kXuaGBXf46rpE07OwQuqoB9dUi7evgnn

 

 

Ok cool yeah I read the section in Ship.HitChance in 1.4.1.1 that uses those two params (and enough else of that function and what it calls) that I have confidence I'll be able to make 1.5 still use those params. Just need to make a 1.5 install and see how the function changed; if the section is removed it's super simple to just add another Ship.HitChanceCalc.Add call with the old code in a postfix to Ship.HitChance and recalculate the final hit chance from that.

 

So is that what you'd like? Or do you want something different done to the hit chance code?

 

[o Barão]

@NathanKell and how that change could be implemented?

[NathanKell]

6 minutes ago, o Barão said:

@NathanKell and how that change could be implemented?

Unity games are code moddable with Harmony (and, if they don't natively support plugins, via a plugin loader to actually load the code, like BepinEx or MelonLoader). IL2CPP games are a bit harder to deal with (certainly the decompile is much harder to read!) but it's still quite possible to (a) read the code and then (b) change how the code works. That's what I've started doing. If you want to see what I'm actually doing, the source files (*.cs) are in the zip in my thread. And if you want to read the code, il2cppdumper with ghidra or IDA will let you do so, although you have to be reasonably familiar with x86 assembly.

 

EDIT: If you mean from a coding standpoint, I described it above--postfix HitChance to (a) add the Target Size reason back in, and (b) change HitChance's result to include that multiplier as well.

Edited March 9 by NathanKell

[o Barão]

19 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

Unity games are code moddable with Harmony (and, if they don't natively support plugins, via a plugin loader to actually load the code, like BepinEx or MelonLoader). IL2CPP games are a bit harder to deal with (certainly the decompile is much harder to read!) but it's still quite possible to (a) read the code and then (b) change how the code works. That's what I've started doing. If you want to see what I'm actually doing, the source files (*.cs) are in the zip in my thread. And if you want to read the code, il2cppdumper with ghidra or IDA will let you do so, although you have to be reasonably familiar with x86 assembly.

 

EDIT: If you mean from a coding standpoint, I described it above--postfix HitChance to (a) add the Target Size reason back in, and (b) change HitChance's result to include that multiplier as well.

Yeah, that is an issue. It would make the installation far too complicated for the average user, and I would be dependent on your work every time there is an update. But thanks for the offer.

[o Barão]

BETA v5.9.3 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated for UAD 1.5.0 live

 

Note:

• The new hulls, ship parts and gun models will be implemented in the next weeks.

Edited March 9 by o Barão

[lemanruss]

Is it possible to add some soviet battleships from wows. I really like the Kremlin class hull.

[NathanKell]

On 3/9/2024 at 2:46 AM, o Barão said:

Yeah, that is an issue. It would make the installation far too complicated for the average user, and I would be dependent on your work every time there is an update. But thanks for the offer.

I don't understand why it would make things harder to install. Users would just need to extract an archive containing 3 files (English.lng, the mod dll, and resources.assets, all in their appropriate paths) rather than just the first and third of those files. Only difference is the one-time setup of MelonLoader, which involves running an exe and pointing it at your UAD folder.

 

I do quite understand that you wouldn't want to be dependent on someone else's work, however.

[lemanruss]

For whatever reason, this mod destroy game bin to json converter. any idea why?