"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.4 - for UAD v1.5.1.6

[o Barão]

14 hours ago, Roachbugg said:

I don't suppose there's a way to force the AI to actually armor their ships? The amount of capital ships I've sunk with ease became the AI gave them 0 fore and Aft belt armor is frankly kinda comical. In a tragic sort of way. 

Well, in theory, there is an unrealistic way to fix that. Set all the weight values so low that you and the AI will not know what to do with so much available tonnage, and will put hilarious armor values on the ships. Apart from that, there is no way, unless some parameters could be added by the devs, that would take into consideration the ship year to set a minimum armor value.

[BrassBattleship]

Hi Barao, can you please bring back Russian BB Hull 1 from 1890. I really like that hull.

Not to replace what you have put in its place, but as an alternative. If possible.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by BrassBattleship

[o Barão]

3 hours ago, BrassBattleship said:

Hi Barao, can you please bring back Russian BB Hull 1 from 1890. I really like that hull.

Not to replace what you have put in its place, but as an alternative. If possible.

 

I can't. I try to be as historical accurate whenever is possible, and that hull was never used by the Russians.

[o Barão]

BETA v4.0.3 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.0.9 Opt x3
• Changes to AI tactical decisions

 

---About the AI changes---

I want to stress this is experimental, your feedback is important. I don't have many modifiers to play with it, and those are universal and applied to all ship classes. 😞

 

• torpedo_evade_range,1500,"torpedo spotting range for evasion, half of it is used for torpedo prediction",800,test: 2000 or lower,,,,, In vanilla game the value is 13500 (1)
• approach_clamp_torpedoes,0.9,Approach logic for ships armed with torpedoes. The bigger the sharper turns to reach the desired distance.,,,,,,,In vanilla game the value is 0.455 (2)
• approach_clamp_no_guns,0.7,"Same, but if too far to shoot guns. The bigger the sharper turns to reach the desired distance.",0.95 [0.3~1],0.17,,,,, In vanilla game the value is 0.4275 (3)

 

1-In NAR the sonar does nothing to spot torpedoes, so the default value to spot them is used as a reference here (*700 meters). This should help the AI to keep the formations in battle line without the whole fleet going crazy when a torpedo is spotted, however they could be very weak against torpedo attacks.

 

2-This should help the AI in doing torpedo attack runs against the player, the issue with this is the fact the modifier is universal, and I really don't like to see AI BBs rushing the player only because they have torpedoes.

 

3-Small change to see if it is possible to improve the time the AI takes to get into battle.

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

Pitch and Roll seem to be high again

[o Barão]

1 minute ago, PalaiologosTheGreat said:

Pitch and Roll seem to be high again

No changes to the pitch values, I just checked in game and everything is fine.

[o Barão]

BETA v4.0.4 N.A.R. changelog:

• More improvements to the AI.

 

approach_clamp,0.05,Lmit of direction/away approach angle for ship's far away. Must not be >1. The bigger the sharper turns to reach the desired distance.,0.5 [0.3~1],,,,,, In vanilla game the value is 0.33

This forces the AI if sailing in a division without torpedoes to make smooth turns in or away from the target. This is particular useful in the pre-dreadnought era to maximize the firepower and to get a target solution for the main guns on the AI ships.

 

Issues:

• If the AI have torpedoes on board, will behave like they are sailing in torpedo boats, rushing the player like idiots. Nothing I can do.
• If the player is trying to run away from the AI, the computer will not understand that it is needed a more aggressive approach to chase you. They will rush the target only if they have torpedoes on board.

 

Fun fact, the AI BB tries to avoid the player torpedo boats like a plague, but if is fighting a player BB, will ignore if you have torpedoes or not. Makes sense?

[MDHansen]

It seems there are no middle way 🤔 We need to get those params split

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, MDHansen said:

It seems there are no middle way 🤔 We need to get those params split

Yeah, we really need that. I am thinking about a possibility.

 

To change the approach_clamp_torpedoes value from 0.99 to 0.15. The AI will not rush you with the torpedoes in 1890, but the moment they get 3km or higher, this becomes irrelevant and maybe is an advantage in the long run.

Also, does not matter if the AI BB have torpedoes or not, he will know how to behave in the battle line.

 

The problem is if the player is trying to run away from the battle. The AI will not know how to chase the player.

[Astor]

Just wanted to report that this new clamp changes are awesome.

I tried with approach_clamp_torpedoes  0.15 too - did several 1900 battles and it was really fun to watch the AI vs AI engaging. Seems you really did find good values, my tests earlier with different values where not as good as your ones, I had problems finding good ones.

One thing I did additonally is to increase the individual division distance to 7000 to give the faster ships more freedom, but otherwise this turned out great.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Astor

[MDHansen]

this is interesting yes. I had pushed clamp_torpedoes up quite a bit myself, so this is completely the opposite of what i had it. Gonna continue doing battles in the different eras

[o Barão]

42 minutes ago, Astor said:

Just wanted to report that this new clamp changes are awesome.

I tried with approach_clamp_torpedoes  0.15 too - did several 1900 battles and it was really fun to watch the AI vs AI engaging. Seems you really did find good values, my tests earlier with different values where not as good as your ones, I had problems finding good ones.

One thing I did additonally is to increase the individual division distance to 7000 to give the faster ships more freedom, but otherwise this turned out great.

This is what happens when we set any limit. The AI divisions will clutter in the border. In this case, it was 7km from the main division.

• I tried many things to keep things interested, but in most cases it was a complete failure. Here is the infamous scout formations. If they are in the wrong side, they will not move to engage the enemies. Does not matter how far I set the limit.
• Screen formation is a no no. Annoying for the players and the AI does not know how to use them.
• I tried to apply the follow formation to the AI, and in a mix battle group, with CA, Cls and TBs, the AI choose to have the TBs to follow the BBs. The worst possible choice. It is random.

13 minutes ago, MDHansen said:

this is interesting yes. I had pushed clamp_torpedoes up quite a bit myself, so this is completely the opposite of what i had it. Gonna continue doing battles in the different eras

Well, after many hours running tests, this seems to be the best bet. To let the AI run wild, and get close and personal with the player. Swarm tactics at close range. Nasty battles.

 

[MDHansen]

talk about getting boxed in! 😬

i guess for now we find a golden middle way, and hope Nick can give us more options in the params when they're done adding ships and bughunting. 

What I have tried, but unsure if I see much difference, is change the "optimal distance.." in ShipTypes for tb and dd. All classes have it set to 0.999. For a long time now I've had tb/dd to 0.7, with clamp_torpedoes to 0.8,  optimal_battle_range_multiplier to 0.8 and ai_distance_mod to 0.9.

Gonna try with "optimal distance" to 0.3 and leave the others as-is. Maybe that can force the smaller boats in closer while keep the bigger at longer range.
It's really hard to know if the params we change works, or how they actually work. Good old guesses in many cases 🙃

[MDHansen]

I havent used screen/scout formations in a long time. I micromanage.... Im a masochist i know

[TheBlackCitadel]

I will say, i'm not a big fan of the changes to weight. It makes starting, especially in the 1890s much harder. 

[o Barão]

6 hours ago, MDHansen said:

I havent used screen/scout formations in a long time. I micromanage.... Im a masochist i know

I do the same thing. I think I am the worst, since I like to play x1 speed for long periods.

[o Barão]

BETA v4.0.5 N.A.R. changelog:

 

Swarm tactics or traditional battle formations?

Choose your poison.

 

• Experimental, two ways to play the game.
• In the download link, the player will find 2 new folders. AI-Swarm tactics and AI-Traditional Battle formations
• Choose one and download the resource.assets file

 

In swarm tactics, all the AI ships armed with torpedoes will rush the player. They are free to do what they want.

Direct link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rFifGenK2IBoMQv5OTlHVYV1QwJQGl5J/view?usp=drive_link

 

In traditional battle formations, the screen, scout and follow formations are activated, and the AI is ordered to behave, and move as a group, without rushing the player.

Direct link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hDeb1bW74kgqXvD7VNepdI4xjxA6O-Ib/view?usp=drive_link

[o Barão]

6 hours ago, TheBlackCitadel said:

I will say, i'm not a big fan of the changes to weight. It makes starting, especially in the 1890s much harder. 

Give me the worst example for me to take a look. (screenshot)

[MasterBurte]

I don't know if this is even possible. But what would be really great is, if ships and formations would get some more options in combat. For example a setting to allow specific engagement ranges. When letting the AI command the ships even my BBs try to get uncomfortable close to the enemies (5-10km). I would prefer them to stay at 20km+ and just pound away.

[MDHansen]

this is basically the discussion and trials we are having now  sadly, for now, our hands are tied, as all class ships use the same parameters in the file we can access.

Barão just posted a really good post in the main thread. Hopefully Nick and the team can give us some more options

Edited December 16, 2023 by MDHansen

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

14 hours ago, MDHansen said:

I havent used screen/scout formations in a long time. I micromanage.... Im a masochist i know

 

I wish it were possible to set course as a number rather than right-click as I micromanage as I like my formations to be nice and pretty.

[Lucky Kadono]

is there a way to increase the effectiveness of invasions and port damage what params do i change

just annoying sometimes when having more than 5 times the required tonnage and still losing a 90 percent roll

[BrassBattleship]

New to this game, playing for Russia with this mod from 1890, its 1895 and the AI in this game is probably the most braindead I`ve ever seen in any game... When you give your ships to AI control it just rushes them into enemy ships and the naval battle resembles a blob. Its a big mess. AI suicides your ships like there`s no tomorrow, mostly by ramming your light cruisers into enemy battleships and so on. What is this? Has anyone even attempted to make an AI for this game.

 

[o Barão]

28 minutes ago, BrassBattleship said:

New to this game, playing for Russia with this mod from 1890, its 1895 and the AI in this game is probably the most braindead I`ve ever seen in any game... When you give your ships to AI control it just rushes them into enemy ships and the naval battle resembles a blob. Its a big mess. AI suicides your ships like there`s no tomorrow, mostly by ramming your light cruisers into enemy battleships and so on. What is this? Has anyone even attempted to make an AI for this game.

 

Using the AI-Swarm tactics version? That is to be expected. Use the other version or control all your ships.

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Lucky Kadono said:

is there a way to increase the effectiveness of invasions and port damage what params do i change

just annoying sometimes when having more than 5 times the required tonnage and still losing a 90 percent roll

port_damage_factor,0.1,How much damage is dealt in successful Port Strike missiions modifier,,,,,,,
port_damage_max_threshold,0.25,Max % of Port Damage in Port Strike mission,,,,,,,

 

Effectiveness of invasions I have no idea.