"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.3 - for UAD v1.5.1.5

[o Barão]

7 minutes ago, StrikerDanger said:

Doesn't this one get a little easier since some of the historical propellants and explosives are already in-game (IE Cordite, Dunnite)?

Yes ofc. The thing is, we have in game for the propellants Cordite I,II,III and Tube Powder I,II,III.

And for the explosives, TNT I,II,III,IV and Pricic Acic I,II,III.

 

So there are possibilities to change some of these variants for new historical ones with complete different stats, to mix up things and add more variety.

[MRweng121]

Can you teach me how to modify the ship's roll and pitch angle? Which file should this value be modified? I am a player who uses your mod and recommended it to my friends. Now I also hope to customize my gaming experience more

[o Barão]

45 minutes ago, MRweng121 said:

Can you teach me how to modify the ship's roll and pitch angle? Which file should this value be modified? I am a player who uses your mod and recommended it to my friends. Now I also hope to customize my gaming experience more

I never edited the ship roll or pitch angle. I don't think it is possible to edit those modifiers, but that are instead a consequence of the values that we can edit below in the "params" file. But I can be wrong about this, so take with a grain of salt. This values below are GLOBAL and applied to all ships. Maybe you can find something related to each individual hull in the "parts" file that can be responsible for what you are looking for.

 

#,,Constructor Stability,,,,,,,
citadel_offset_modifier,41500,modifier of the weight offset produced by Citadel center,,,,,,,
engine_weight_coef_mod,0.000004,modifier for engine weight which affects weight offset of ship according to the position of engine rooms,,,,,,,
stability_z_threshold,0.000012,"threshold of instability start (forward), New: Changed to work as weight tolerance delta",150,0.001,0.01,0.5,,,
stability_x_threshold,0.000012,"threshold of instability start (side), New: Changed to work as weight tolerance delta",100,0.0025,0.25,0.2,,,
stability_z_convert,2700000,convertion of value above threshold to instability (forward),150,65,410,50,,,
stability_x_convert,79000,convertion of value above threshold to instability (side),100,65,200,80,,,
stability_range_power,1.2,range exponent for stability,1,3.55,1.32,3.3,,,
stability_zz_threshold,-1137.5,threshold of momentum instability start (forward),-9100,-1137.5,,,,,
stability_xx_threshold,-853.125,threshold of momentum instability start (side),-6825,-853.125,,,,,
stability_zz_convert,50,divisor of momentum instability (forward),240,43.2,,,,,
stability_xx_convert,50,divisor of momentum instability (side),325,58.5,,,,,
instability_damage_ratio,0.065,multiplier from damage-received value to instability-due-to-damage stat,1,0.065,,,,,
instability_damage_decrease,0.045,"decrease of battle instability due to damage received (percent, per second)",1,0.045,,,,,
acc_instab_flooding,-50,convertion of instability due to flooding to own inaccuracy,-30 (-10~-80),-50,,,,,
acc_instab_damage,-50,convertion of instability due to damage-received to own inaccuracy,-30 (-10~-80),-50,,,,,

Edited November 15, 2023 by o Barão

[o Barão]

BETA v2.0.8 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.0.7 Opt

[MRweng121]

Thank you very much.For beginners like me, being able to modify global parameters is enough

[SpardaSon21]

21 hours ago, o Barão said:

• I need 10 historical propellants and 10 historical explosives
• The years that are unlocked needs to be more or less historical accurate.
• If the propellant increase the range, also needs to increase the muzzle velocity
• I need the component description for all of them. This is the easy part.
• And most IMPORTANT, the stats need to reflect the component's realistic properties.

I'll need to find a replacement for TNT IV, but otherwise I did have all ten.  Years are easy, and I gave basic descriptions in the files at the end, replacing any vanilla ones if they existed.  As for stats... ugh, its iffy since there's so many propellants the best I can give you for the double-base ones is rough analogues to certain kinds.

 

20 hours ago, StrikerDanger said:

Doesn't this one get a little easier since some of the historical propellants and explosives are already in-game (IE Cordite, Dunnite)?

Yes, but not very well.  I'd like to get something closer to historical.  There's no reason for Cordite and Tube Powder to have wildly different properties since until the final few versions of Tube Powder they both used nitroglycerin and nitrocellulose as their explosive bases, only differing in ratio.  Cordite was more powerful but also a lot less safe since the lowest it went for nitroglycerin percentage was 30%, the initial version being 58% nitroglycerin and its final form that was stabilized with centralite 41.5%.  That said, the Japanese used both Cordite and later on their own variant of Tube Powder, with Austria-Hungary using Poudre B until 1897 before switching over to something similar to Cordite.

 

And the USA and France both used nothing but various forms of Poudre B until the WW2 era since neither of them trusted anything with nitroglycerin in it, the French switching over to something akin to Tube Powder during the 1930's once they realized centralite made it safe to use and the USA sticking with a modified form of Poudre B until the very end of WW2 when they adopted a nitroglycerin-free and flashless triple base.

Edited November 16, 2023 by SpardaSon21

[StrikerDanger]

USA Dreadnought II has a bugged casemate placement (Starboard side, 2nd slot below superstructure placements). I don't know if it's actually bugged bugged, but the rotation icon suggests that it will rotate into the hull, making it useless. No idea if it's from NAR's changes - though I doubt it - or if it's like this even in an un-modded game.

A minor thing, but I thought it worth mentioning (I don't actually know where to send modded game bug reports)

[o Barão]

12 minutes ago, StrikerDanger said:

USA Dreadnought II has a bugged casemate placement (Starboard side, 2nd slot below superstructure placements). I don't know if it's actually bugged bugged, but the rotation icon suggests that it will rotate into the hull, making it useless. No idea if it's from NAR's changes - though I doubt it - or if it's like this even in an un-modded game.

A minor thing, but I thought it worth mentioning (I don't actually know where to send modded game bug reports)

In this situation, the issue is not caused by the component size, since the same happens to all guns available. It is an issue with the 3D model, so the only thing to do is to report to the devs.

[o Barão]

BETA v2.0.9 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.0.7 Optx2

[MRweng121]

I have a question about how to modify the range of different MK guns. I hope the naval battles in the game will occur at closer distances, but if I modify the technology, sometimes the game will get stuck in the initial loading. And even if that's the case, could you please advise me on how to modify the range of different MK main guns separately

[o Barão]

36 minutes ago, MRweng121 said:

I have a question about how to modify the range of different MK guns. I hope the naval battles in the game will occur at closer distances, but if I modify the technology, sometimes the game will get stuck in the initial loading. And even if that's the case, could you please advise me on how to modify the range of different MK main guns separately

In the "guns" file you will see these modifiers for all calibers range_1,range_2,range_3,range_4,range_5

[o Barão]

Where did you saw TNT mixed with black powder?

@SpardaSon21

[SpardaSon21]

11 hours ago, o Barão said:

Where did you saw TNT mixed with black powder?

@SpardaSon21

Some of the US bursters were.

That said, it looks like I conflated things somewhere along the way into a general application of it.

[wwii44]

We could do with a BB hull that allows us to recreate the Braunschweig and Deutschland-class pre-dreadnoughts as well as a CA hull to recreate the Roon and Scharnhorst class armored cruisers.

[o Barão]

4 hours ago, SpardaSon21 said:

Some of the US bursters were.

That said, it looks like I conflated things somewhere along the way into a general application of it.

Yes. That is a specific American application, but not an explosive technology breakthrough.

[o Barão]

7 hours ago, wwii44 said:

We could do with a BB hull that allows us to recreate the Braunschweig and Deutschland-class pre-dreadnoughts as well as a CA hull to recreate the Roon and Scharnhorst class armored cruisers.

I suggested the same thing to the devs, but no luck. 😞

[o Barão]

BETA v3.0.0 N.A.R. changelog:

 

----Propellants and explosives rework.----

Part I  propellants.

Parameters defined

• Shell velocity modifier exclusive for propellants: more shell velocity, will give more range and more penetration to the guns.
• Brown Powder gets a hull weight penalty because the volume needed for storage. Also, a reload penalty due to the weight.
• Brown Powder gets an accuracy penalty due to smoke.
• Low burn propellants gets a bonus to accuracy and high burn propellants gets a penalty to accuracy. Single based propellants are neutral in this regard.
• Added the American single base propellant SPD
• Added the propellants historical names.
• All propellants have the years unlocked close to reality. With minor changes for a few for gameplay reasons.

Special notes related to late propellants:

• RP C/38 used diethylene glycol dinitrate (DGN), which was cooler-burning and less bore erosive, improving accuracy.
• Cordite N is a triple base propellant that uses nitroguanidine which had the benefit of reducing the muzzle flash and its lower burning temperature greatly reduced the erosion of the gun barrel and improving the accuracy.

Some propellants descriptions updated. ENGLISH file updated.

 

Note:

In the ballistics software, for the most part, if I increase 10% the muzzle velocity, I would get around 13% - 16% bonus to range and penetration.

 

HE fire, AP fire and shell damage modifiers are exclusive for explosives and coming in the next major update. W.I.P.

Edited November 20, 2023 by o Barão

[o Barão]

BETA v3.0.1 N.A.R. changelog:

• Reworked all shell velocity values for all guns to be more realistic.

[Fangoriously]

like what I see on the powder rebalance, especially their norm being powders all increasing muzzle velocity, even if just a little. On by old dreadnaughts I wouldn't refit past cordite 1 until I unlocked triple base, all the tube powders and later cordite dragging gun range down so significantly.

[SpardaSon21]

11 hours ago, o Barão said:

• Low burn propellants gets a bonus to accuracy and high burn propellants gets a penalty to accuracy. Single based propellants are neutral in this regard.

One minor detail: the single base propellants are the lowest burn ones out there.  To quote from Navweaps:

Quote

 

Single-Base, Double-Base, Triple-base and Composite Base Propellants - Propellants are normally classified into three types; single-base, double-base and composite. Single base propellants are primarily gelatinized nitrocellulose that do not contain an additional explosive ingredient such as nitroglycerin. Double-base propellants are mainly compositions that are predominately nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. Triple-base propellants are double-base propellants to which has been added a third explosive, Nitroguanidine (see below). Composite propellants are compositions that contain mixtures of fuel and inorganic oxidants but do not contain a significant amount of nitrocellulose or nitroglycerin. There are also combinations of composite and double-base propellants.

 

Quote

Gun Cotton or Nitrocellulose - Explosive substance formed by the nitration of cotton or some other form of cellulose. As a projectile force, gun cotton has around six times the gas generation of an equal volume of black powder and produces less smoke and less barrel heating. Guncotton releases about 1,100 kilocalories (Kcal) of energy per kilogram, nearly twice that of black powder, almost the same as TNT and two-thirds that of nitroglycerine. Moist or "wet" guncotton is relatively stable but can be easily exploded by using a small amount of dry guncotton (which is sensitive to shock) to start the deflagration. Some history about guncotton: In 1838 the French chemist Theophile Jule Pelouze discovered that an explosive could be produced by nitrating cotton, that is, by treating cotton with nitric acid in such a way as to cause NO₂ groups from the nitric acid, HNO₃, to enter into combination with the cotton cellulose. He thus produced cellulose nitrates, generally called nitrocellulose. His explosive was the first guncotton, but it was an inconsistent mixture and was not put to practical use. The German-Swiss chemist Christian Friedrich Schönbein discovered in 1845-46 that by nitrating cotton with a mixture of nitric and sulfuric acids, an explosive of good quality would result and that the nitration process could be satisfactorily controlled. Manufacture of guncotton via his process was undertaken in several European countries, but poor quality control led to a series of disastrous explosions in many of the factories where it was being produced. The researches of various investigators during the middle of 19th century, notably those of General von Lenk in Austria and the British chemist Frederick Abel at Woolwich Arsenal (who, together with James Dewar, later invented cordite), showed that the danger was due to the presence of impurities, which could be removed by careful courses of treatment. The methods of purification which they introduced consisted principally in washing and boiling, together with pulping the material to facilitate cleansing. In 1865, Abel was the first to safely produce good quality guncotton.

Guncotton/nitrocellulose has 2/3 the power of nitroglycerin, so Poudre B and SPD should have the best accuracy but worst velocity and range.

Edited November 21, 2023 by SpardaSon21

[o Barão]

3 hours ago, SpardaSon21 said:

One minor detail: the single base propellants are the lowest burn ones out there.  To quote from Navweaps:

Guncotton/nitrocellulose has 2/3 the power of nitroglycerin, so Poudre B and SPD should have the best accuracy but worst velocity and range.

Many thanks. What you wrote give me an idea to make specific questions to ChatGPT to find what I need to know. In short, you are right, but not exactly for the same reason. It is not about the power but more about the rate of combustion.

 

From Chatgdp

"Low-burn-rate propellants refer to gunpowders or propellants that have a slower rate of combustion compared to higher-burn-rate counterparts. The burn rate of a propellant affects the pressure and velocity generated in a firearm, and different applications require different burn rates to optimize performance.

Low-burn-rate propellants are often used in large caliber firearms, magnum cartridges, and applications where a slower, more controlled burn is desirable. This can contribute to more efficient energy transfer to the projectile and can help manage recoil."

As an example, "Guncotton releases about 1,100 kilocalories (Kcal) of energy per kilogram, nearly twice that of black powder, almost the same as TNT"

If Guncotton release the same kilocalories at the same rate as TNT, then it would be a high explosive and a terrible propellant for use in a gun barrel.

 

and this...

Nitrocellulose is not typically considered a high explosive; rather, it is categorized as a low explosive. Low explosives, including nitrocellulose, undergo a deflagration process, which is a rapid but subsonic combustion that propagates through the material at a speed slower than the speed of sound. This is in contrast to high explosives, which undergo a detonation process characterized by a shockwave traveling through the material at supersonic speeds.

Nitrocellulose, also known as guncotton, is a highly flammable and energetic material. It is commonly used in the production of smokeless powder, a type of propellant used in firearms. The combustion of nitrocellulose is rapid, but it does not produce the shockwave and destructive force associated with high explosives like TNT or RDX. Nitrocellulose is more stable than many high explosives and is primarily used as a propellant or in the production of celluloid plastics.

 

and this...

Nitroglycerin is not typically used as a propellant in firearms. Instead, it is a powerful and highly sensitive explosive. Nitroglycerin is classified as a high explosive, and it undergoes rapid detonation rather than the slower combustion associated with low-burn-rate propellants.

In the context of firearms and ammunition, nitroglycerin is often used as a component in the manufacture of some high explosives and blasting agents. It is known for its ability to release a large amount of energy quickly, making it suitable for explosive applications such as mining and demolition.

 

So with this information, I have now a good idea how the propellants should work in game. I will make a few changes.

 

 

 

 

[SpardaSon21]

14 minutes ago, o Barão said:

Many thanks. What you wrote give me an idea to make specific questions to ChatGPT to find what I need to know. In short, you are right, but not exactly for the same reason. It is not about the power but more about the rate of combustion.

 

Keep in mind you also have a great deal of heat from high explosives, which as NavWeaps mentions several times increases barrel wear as the steel softens more under firing.

As to combustion rate, that's exactly why US cannons, especially later on, weren't that much worse in velocity and range despite not using such potent powders.  Our cannons used a substantial amount of slow burning powder combined with a progressive grain that burns faster and faster during the combustion process (creating more and more gas as it does so) to maintain a near-constant pressure inside the gun even as the shell moved down the barrel to expand the total gas volume.  On the other hand the shells of other nations would gradually begin to slow down inside the barrel as pressure reduced from both more volume to expand in and the combustion rate either stayed the same or in the case of cordite, actually slowed down.

[o Barão]

BETA v3.0.2 N.A.R. changelog:

Small changes to propellants:

• SPD and White Powder: best accuracy, average safety, bad penetration, bad range, best weight.
• Ballistite and Cordite propellants, will have the best penetration and range, bad safety, bad accuracy, average weight.
• Tube powder variants (RC): best safety, average accuracy, average penetration, average range, bad weight, small reload bonus.

Note: The devs mention that RC variants have a quicker reload times due to being it has the form of small tubes, but it is the heaviest propellant. In the book "Naval Firepower" the author mentions how the Germans stored the propellant in full brass case near the breech, where the gas seal was most important. The other charges were cased in thin zinc, which was destroyed when the gun fire. Maybe this explains why they were heavier but quicker to reload. I have no idea, but if I find more about this I can do some minor changes.

 

Update

From a comment on Quora.

"The German large caliber naval guns utilized a cartridge case to seal the breech. This allowed them to use a simple sliding block breech on their guns. The British and other navies utilized an interrupted screw breech.

The German gun was loaded by first ramming the projectile. Then the bagged fore powder charge and the cartridge case which contained the main charge were rammed together. The breach was then closed. The gun was then elevated and fired. The spent cartridge case was ejected as the gun was brought back to the loading elevation.

In the British gun, the fore powder charge and the rear powder charge had to be rammed separately. If they were not, the compression on the rear charge could prematurely ignite the powder. Care had to be taken to not over ram the second charge. The breech was then closed. The gun was elevated and fired. The gun was brought back to the loading elevation.

The higher rate of fire by the German gun was the result of only needing to load (ram) twice rather than three times.

Using cartridge cases did cause some problems. It meant that the German turrets had to have openings in the back to eject the spent cartridge cases. In heavy weather, waves crashing over the bow could flood the fore turret through those openings under certain conditions. This happened to both the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau during their engagement with Renown."

 

Edited November 21, 2023 by o Barão

[Kamfretz]

Can we mod tech stats? I,ve been googling allday and found none mod tutorial.

Sorry if its wrong place to ask.

[o Barão]

30 minutes ago, Kamfretz said:

Can we mod tech stats? I,ve been googling allday and found none mod tutorial.

Sorry if its wrong place to ask.

Yes, by editing the "technologies" file inside the resource.assets