slightlytreasonous Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Candle_86 said: The German people did nothing to stop hitler and his mass murder of 6 million Jews, and the german people where held to task War is not murder, my point stands Russia has started a war, any deaths of Russian civilians because of war is on putins hands, and yes I'd volunteer to help remove Russia's ability to fight. You win a war by defeating the will of a country to wage war, and the most effective way to cause this to happen is called Total War, that is the attack on industry, infrasture, and agricultural necessities of war. This is how Germany was defeated in WW1, this is how the Axis was beat in WW2, and this is why we lost Vietnam and Korea, because we refused to wage total war Murder isn't a thing in war- so it's perfectly okay? I mean just that is hypocritical. The rape of Nanjing, My Lai, the entire Holocaust, those are okay because it's war-. But every single citizen in the nation deserves to be killed for murder- and that's okay because there's no murder in war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle_86 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, slightlytreasonous said: Murder isn't a thing in war- so it's perfectly okay? I mean just that is hypocritical. The rape of Nanjing, My Lai, the entire Holocaust, those are okay because it's war-. But every single citizen in the nation deserves to be killed for murder- and that's okay because there's no murder in war? Those incidents where classified as war crimes, and want to know the truth, our firebombing of Tokyo, our 2 atom bomb drops, our leveling of German cities never once counted as a war crime, the goal is to limit civilian casualities, but if they are choosing to work where war industry exists that is their fault for remaining at their job. Do I saw we bomb a retirement home? No Do I saw we bomb oil fields, factories, and steel mills? Why yes I do because those are industries relevant to war, same with food production because that food feeds the Army. If only in 1945 we had invaded Russia and restored democracy then we wouldn't be having these problems Edited February 24, 2022 by Candle_86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slightlytreasonous Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Candle_86 said: Those incidents where classified as war crimes, and want to know the truth, our firebombing of Tokyo, our 2 atom bomb drops, our leveling of German cities never once counted as a war crime, the goal is to limit civilian casualities, but if they are choosing to work where war industry exists that is their fault for remaining at their job. Do I saw we bomb a retirement home? No Do I saw we bomb oil fields, factories, and steel mills? Why yes I do because those are industries relevant to war, same with food production because that food feeds the Army. If only in 1945 we had invaded Russia and restored democracy then we wouldn't be having these problems How can you commit a warcrime, if there's no murder in war. Wait, i understand now. According to you the good guys can do no wrong whatsoever. I'm not against the A bombs or firebombings myself, I believe they were justified. But that doesn't mean they weren't horrifyingly brutal and killed people who didn't deserve it. It's never as black and white as good and bad, I thought anyone past kindergarten could understand this. Edited February 24, 2022 by slightlytreasonous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle_86 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, slightlytreasonous said: Okay, I understand now. According to you the good guys can do no wrong whatsoever. I'm not against the A bombs or firebombings myself, I believe they were justified. But that doesn't mean they weren't horrifyingly brutal and killed people who didn't deserve it. It's never as black and white as good and bad, I thought anyone past kindergarten could understand this. The good guys did what they had to do, and that is how one must fight a war, do what must be done no matter the consequence. If making an enemy stop requires leveling cities and fields then it must be done, all options should be on the table in war. The ends justify the means, and the way I see it if we get involved the person accountable for the dead civilians is Putin, the Russian people by supporting Putin have invited those consequences upon themselves. Edited February 24, 2022 by Candle_86 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakilla364 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, slightlytreasonous said: Murder isn't a thing in war- so it's perfectly okay? I mean just that is hypocritical. The rape of Nanjing, My Lai, the entire Holocaust, those are okay because it's war-. But every single citizen in the nation deserves to be killed for murder- and that's okay because there's no murder in war? the unfortunate thing about war is this... the losing side are the only ones that have to answer for their 'war crimes' the winning side seldom does.. take world war 2 for example. the japs and germans had to answer for their crimes.. but the U.S. dropped two nuclear devices on japan targeting only civilians and infrastructure.. they also locked american citizens of japanese descent into camps, similar to that germany did to the jewish.. sure they werent starved worked to death or beaten.... that we know of... but those, like it or not were still war crimes.. the same war crimes that others faced puniushment for.. ones that the US got away with scotch free... anywho, if we sit here and debate this all day it will achieve absolutley nothing.. the fact of the matter is that japan surrendered to the US only because the japanese emperor wanted the civillian bloodshed to stop... germany surrendered to russia because they wanted the civilian rapes and tortures to stop, and their leader committed suicide.. ukraine is under unprovoked attack from the russians.. they can try to fight. but will be outnumbered eventually as russias army is larger than even the US's. In war you also cannot give the benefit of the doubt to the aggressor, they started the conflict.. theyre likely to kill civilians.. and actually every single casualty is in essence their fault, especially if it could have been avoided by diplomacy, which this war in ukraine could have! no the killing of civilians is never okay, but he's right like it or not... the only way to stop a snake from fighting is to cut off its head... the US lost vietnam for many reasons and yes, lack of total war was one of them the US left korea for the same reasons it lost in vietnam... when youre facing a military youre going to lose against, the only way to even the odds is to target the aggresors infastructure and war machine... being the entire factory and system that supplies the military... cause yes, they know whats happening and they continue to support it, and stand idle as these atrocities occur 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borklund Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Can you shut the hello kitty up please? None of this relates to the v1.05 patch. Moderators please clean up this thread and ban some of these idiots already, Christ. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayknight Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Skeksis said: You do realize GameLabs company is spread around the world, located in Ukraine, Russia, Greece, Dubai, Italy and Estonia, head office in Kiev. It has been posted that UAD team works out of Athens by forum users. Please don't post shit unless you have official statements. Oh ok then it is my mistake. I was afraid and sure that this game developer is only in Ukraine. In this case i am sorry it was my mistake based upon info i had at the time. Thank you for correcting me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slightlytreasonous Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Candle_86 said: The good guys did what they had to do, and that is how one must fight a war, do what must be done no matter the consequence. If making an enemy stop requires leveling cities and fields then it must be done, all options should be on the table in war. The ends justify the means, and the way I see it if we get involved the person accountable for the dead civilians is Putin, the Russian people by supporting Putin have invited those consequences upon themselves. The ends justifying the means doesn't mean whoever is on the receiving end "deserves" whatever they got. The war in Ukraine didn't have to happen. Putin caused it. Does that mean it would be justified, let alone entirely okay, to shoot some kid because they're Russian? Often it's unavoidable, war is a hello kittying nightmare. Often there is real reason to it. But you CAN NOT say that every single person deserved exactly what they got. And that's before even going into the sheer genocidal level you seem so intent on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayknight Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 17 minutes ago, Candle_86 said: the Russian people by supporting Putin have invited those consequences upon themselves. Russian people were suprised by outbreak of the war, many officials were against it and i have read that there were mass arrest due to anti war protests happening in many of the russia cities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakilla364 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, slightlytreasonous said: The ends justifying the means doesn't mean whoever is on the receiving end "deserves" whatever they got. The war in Ukraine didn't have to happen. Putin caused it. Does that mean it would be justified, let alone entirely okay, to shoot some kid because they're Russian? Often it's unavoidable, war is a hello kittying nightmare. Often there is real reason to it. But you CAN NOT say that every single person deserved exactly what they got. And that's before even going into the sheer genocidal level you seem so intent on. i think youre missing the point... is it okay? no its not okay, but its what MUST be done to prevent the total destruction of your country and/or beliefs. the only way to stop a snake from fighting is to cut off its head.. which in essence means destroying the military, its will to fight, and its support elements... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle_86 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, slightlytreasonous said: The ends justifying the means doesn't mean whoever is on the receiving end "deserves" whatever they got. The war in Ukraine didn't have to happen. Putin caused it. Does that mean it would be justified, let alone entirely okay, to shoot some kid because they're Russian? Often it's unavoidable, war is a hello kittying nightmare. Often there is real reason to it. But you CAN NOT say that every single person deserved exactly what they got. And that's before even going into the sheer genocidal level you seem so intent on. I'm intent on removing Russia's ability to threaten the world in the future, a full scale invasion and once they are defeated we remove their ability to make war, we place permanate forces in Russia for the next 100 years and enforce upon Russia the right to only produce agriculture and similar industries, and prevent them from further production of planes, cars, guns, bombs, oil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle_86 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Grayknight said: Russian people were suprised by outbreak of the war, many officials were against it and i have read that there were mass arrest due to anti war protests happening in many of the russia cities. Then they should be storming the Krimlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speglord Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, dakilla364 said: i think youre missing the point... is it okay? no its not okay, but its what MUST be done to prevent the total destruction of your country and/or beliefs. the only way to stop a snake from fighting is to cut off its head.. which in essence means destroying the military, its will to fight, and its support elements... We "MUST" kill innocents in Russia? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slightlytreasonous Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, dakilla364 said: i think youre missing the point... is it okay? no its not okay, but its what MUST be done to prevent the total destruction of your country and/or beliefs. the only way to stop a snake from fighting is to cut off its head.. which in essence means destroying the military, its will to fight, and its support elements... According to candle the Russian population "invited the consequences on themselves" because they "aren't storming the Krimlin" AKA "It's okay to kill them, because if you aren't actively rebelling, you completely support your country." Are we ignoring the human factor? Every nation is a hivemind now? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speglord Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, slightlytreasonous said: According to candle the Russian population "invited the consequences on themselves" because they "aren't storming the Krimlin" AKA "It's okay to kill them, because if you aren't actively rebelling, you completely support your country." Are we ignoring the human factor? Every nation is a hivemind now? They're both armchair soldiers who are daydreaming about killing innocents, justifying actual warcrimes because "reasons." I'm praying for everyone in the line of fire and I hope Nick and any other GameLabs people in the country are safe. I hope deaths and injuries and damages from this point are minimized. But literally arguing that America should go in and commit war crimes, in the same breath that he says "we lost Vietnam because we didn't wage total war," is literally detached from reality. Go read a book. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakilla364 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 alright im done with you, you must have selective hearing, and pick and choose what you want to listen to, im not going to waste my time and breath on someone whos supporting the very thing theyre arguing against because they agree with the other side of it. the fact is that blood is being spilled, on both sides, unnecessarily because of RUSSIAs actions. someone needs to do something about it, and ukraines only way of standing a chance alone, is to bomb the absolute shit out of russian infrastructure and civilians, as thats the way to stop a military of over 2 million from decimating a military of a mere couple hundred thousand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakilla364 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 76% of russian nationals are supporting the actions putin is taking in ukraine because of the disinformation the russian media has been feeding them since the beginning of the troop movements in russia and belarus... theyre being told that the US is provoking the russian federation, and that NATO is trying to intrude into russian territory by accepting ukraine into NATO (which was ultimately denied and has been for years by NATO) which is how russia is justifying this move... as for speglord, i sure as shit hope your're right, since you live in new york, at least know that when the nukes start landing (cause if this kicks off they will and putin dont give a shit about civilian casualties, as russia traditionally never has during war) theyre landing in places like new york, and DC first 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodaBit Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Looks like it's time to start fish posting again 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle_86 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, dakilla364 said: 76% of russian nationals are supporting the actions putin is taking in ukraine because of the disinformation the russian media has been feeding them since the beginning of the troop movements in russia and belarus... theyre being told that the US is provoking the russian federation, and that NATO is trying to intrude into russian territory by accepting ukraine into NATO (which was ultimately denied and has been for years by NATO) which is how russia is justifying this move... as for speglord, i sure as shit hope your're right, since you live in new york, at least know that when the nukes start landing (cause if this kicks off they will and putin dont give a shit about civilian casualties, as russia traditionally never has during war) theyre landing in places like new york, and DC first It's our modern education system doesn't educate anymore on what real war, people think its like Call of Duty, they don't realize how war is won, and they refuse to accept it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speglord Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, Candle_86 said: It's our modern education system doesn't educate anymore on what real war, people think its like Call of Duty, they don't realize how war is won, and they refuse to accept it You're the one fantasizing about pushing the button to kill millions. What the hello kitty are you talking about? We dropped more bombs on Vietnam than all of Germany and Japan in WWII combined. Millions of Vietnamese died during the war -- the majority of them innocent civilians. Do you know what "search and destroy" was? There are children still being born today with severe (and often fatal) deformations because of Agent Orange and other chemicals we used. People die every year from unexploded ordinance -- children included. We left Korea because the alternative was literally nuking and invading China which would have killed even more people, and it may not have been a war we would have won in the end. Invading China would have forced the Soviets' hand, and they would have moved in to help defend China. A wider nuclear war could have been the result. Why are you two so hellbent on the thought of killing civilians? Why are you choosing to die on this hill? You sound hello kittying insane. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candle_86 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Speglord said: You're the one fantasizing about pushing the button to kill millions. What the hello kitty are you talking about? We dropped more bombs on Vietnam than all of Germany and Japan in WWII combined. Millions of Vietnamese died during the war -- the majority of them innocent civilians. Do you know what "search and destroy" was? There are children still being born today with severe (and often fatal) deformations because of Agent Orange and other chemicals we used. People die every year from unexploded ordinance -- children included. We left Korea because the alternative was literally nuking and invading China which would have killed even more people, and it may not have been a war we would have won in the end. Invading China would have forced the Soviets' hand, and they would have moved in to help defend China. A wider nuclear war could have been the result. Why are you two so hellbent on the thought of killing civilians? Why are you choosing to die on this hill? You sound hello kittying insane. yes we did drop bombs on vietnam, but we didn't hold the territory, we waged a limited war look it up, we limited ourselves to military targets only and we wern't allowed to hold captured ground from North Vietnam, if we had been allowed to fight the war properly Vietnam today would be a democracy. I'm advocating for stopping Russian aggression and the unchecked and willful disregard for the people of Ukraine by Russia. If you think Russia will limit it's self to military objectives go look at Georgia 2008, look at Hungry 1954, look at Chezloslovika 1966, the Russians have no issues killing civilians to meet their objectives, and I promise you they will. So far the weak kneed protectors of democracy have only promised more useless sanctions which have never worked and will never work instead of actual action so don't worry the only dead civilians will be Ukrainians but your ok with that, as long as its not the poor Russians. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakilla364 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Candle_86 said: It's our modern education system doesn't educate anymore on what real war, people think its like Call of Duty, they don't realize how war is won, and they refuse to accept it its not even that, war has changed. no longer do we have to worry about boots on ground, we have to worry about whos got the itchiest trigger finger to push the red button that kills millions of civilians within a couple hours.. russia is a prime example of this as the cold war drug on for ages with russian nuclear capable ICBMs just off the coast of the US in cuba... if youre willing to accept that technology has advanced you also have no other choice than to believe that russia has nuclear warheads that are capable of decimating hundreds if not thousands of miles for years to come all from putins comfortable office in the kremlin.. and its not a matter of who puts boots on ground first anymore, its a matter of who pushes the red button first... we cannot just sit here and pretend that nuclear warfare is not going to happen, its not a matter of if, its a matter of when.. russia has already displayed their ability to not give two shits about civilian casualties, in literally every single conflict they've ever been in... they've also displayed a willingness to nuke the entire CONTUS if it comes to it.. its all about preventative measures.. and so far what ive seen is the entire world poke the sleeping bear with a stick by imposing embargos on russia and russian nationals... which essentially only pisses off putin more and makes him more likely to push the red button as russia doesnt need trade with the majority of the world... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speglord Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Candle_86 said: the Russians have no issues killing civilians to meet their objectives neither did America in Vietnam. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slightlytreasonous Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Candle_86 said: yes we did drop bombs on vietnam, but we didn't hold the territory, we waged a limited war look it up, we limited ourselves to military targets only and we wern't allowed to hold captured ground from North Vietnam, if we had been allowed to fight the war properly Vietnam today would be a democracy. I'm advocating for stopping Russian aggression and the unchecked and willful disregard for the people of Ukraine by Russia. If you think Russia will limit it's self to military objectives go look at Georgia 2008, look at Hungry 1954, look at Chezloslovika 1966, the Russians have no issues killing civilians to meet their objectives, and I promise you they will. So far the weak kneed protectors of democracy have only promised more useless sanctions which have never worked and will never work instead of actual action so don't worry the only dead civilians will be Ukrainians but your ok with that, as long as its not the poor Russians. It's ironic you're calling us hypocritical 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Thomadis Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 The build takes some time to be uploaded/finalized on server. Closing the thread, as it leads to nowhere. The patch and beta discussion can be continued on the beta thread when it is uploaded. 30 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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