USS Pennsylvania

[Lord Markus]

Would be nice to see the USS Pennsylvania in game.  Laid down in 1837, It was the largest sailing warship ever built for the United States, she had three complete gun decks and a flush spar-deck and her hull was pierced for 138 guns.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Lord Markus

[Navalus Magnus]

On 1/10/2021 at 12:17 PM, Lord Markus said:

Would be nice to see the USS Pennsylvania in game.  Laid down in 1837, It was the largest sailing warship ever built for the United States, she had three complete gun decks and a flush spar-deck and her hull was pierced for 138 guns.

Impressive!

But too late imo to be included in a game that covers something like the golden age of (wooden) fighting sail.

In 1837 the days of wooden warships were (almost) over.

It might just be my personal view, but I’d rather have those warships in the game, that had thier share in important battles of the age of sail (e.g. HMS Captain, HMS Vanguard, HMS Victory, Redoutable, Buccentaure, l‘Orient, ... Santissima Trinidad).

Edited January 11, 2021 by Navalus Magnus

[Lord Markus]

The USS Pennsylvania was built during the great age of sail before ironclads and steam power came around and it is my understanding that she was made of wood with copper sheathing on her hull which was common practice during the age of sail for some time and personally I don't think it would be a bad idea to include her when the alternative is adding in generic ships that never existed which has happened quite often in games over the years. 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Lord Markus

[Navalus Magnus]

Don‘t get me wrong, I don’t want to have fancy fantasy pirate ships or something like that!

I also want the „real stuff“ to get into the game, but I think there are better choices than USS Pensylvania, because of the following reasons:

That‘s what I found on wiki about the USS Pensylvania: „Launched in 1837, her only cruise was a single trip from Delaware Bay through Chesapeake Bay to the Norfolk Navy Yard. The ship became a receiving ship“.

That seems a rather unimpressive record!

I would rather have (more famous) ships of the age of sail implemented into the game. Ships that actually saw some action (and were from the dominating naval powers of that period).

The USS Pensylvania saw neither action nor was the US a dominating naval power back in these days. The US were famous for thier super frigates (which definately saw action), but not for ship of the line.

So I’d rather vote for implementing USS Consitution and her sister ships, while filling the slots for ship of the line with those of the fleets of GB, France, Spain and Netherlands maybe.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Navalus Magnus

[Lord Markus]

I completely agree that the USS Pennsylvania does not have an impressive record, there is barely a record of her at all.  I also noticed you mentioned the Santissima Trinidad and Wiki and I would like to share a few things about the Santi.  (I am in no way trying to compare the two ships just trying to explain why I think USS Penn would be a nice addition to a game) please forgive me if you are already familiar with this history.

"In 1797, she was the flagship of Teniente General José de Córdoba y Ramos, the Spanish commander, at Battle of Cape St Vincent on 14 February 1797, where she was badly damaged and nearly captured by the British fleet."

"The weight of the additional guns, so high above her waterline, made her sail poorly, leading to her nickname, El Ponderoso.^[2] It was even suggested by some naval officers that she should be restricted to defending the Bay of Cádiz."

"Eight years later, commanded by Francisco Javier Uriarte and the flagship of Rear Admiral Baltasar Hidalgo de Cisneros, she took part in the Battle of Trafalgar on October 21, 1805, as part of the combined Franco-Spanish fleet. Due to her great bulk, her helm was unresponsive in the light winds on the day, contributing to her ineffective service in the combined fleet's cause.  Her great size and position immediately ahead of the fleet flagship Bucentaure made her a target for the British fleet, and she came under concentrated attack by several ships. She lost her mast and eventually surrendered to the Neptune, a 98-gun second rate commanded by Captain Thomas Fremantle. She was taken in tow by the 98-gun second rate Prince,^[4] but was eventually scuttled by her British captors northwest of Cádiz."

Although I admire the courage of the crew, respect them for their service and understand that she and her men took part in the most famous battle in naval history the Santi did not have a very impressive service record either.  I think the only successful mission she had was capturing a few merchant ships and I'm not sure how much she was actually involved in those missions other than being an escort for smaller frigates, but that doesn't stop her from being one of the most beautiful, amazing and most respected ships in the age of sail and a nice entry into games like naval action.  It is amazing how they can bring some of these old ships back to life.

As for the US not being a "dominate naval power"...They were everything they needed to be.  Line ships were ready to go if needed, but there was never a time when they needed to use them before the innovations of steam power and ironclads.  The US may have been a late bloomer in the age of sail, but took part none the less and established a formidable Navy.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Lord Markus

[Surcouf]

SL is from the 18th century, and the USS Pennsylvania is more recent.
Of course the US Navy already had a fleet at that time, and I think that if US ships are to appear in this new game, it is these ships that we must see at sea.

[CarlBaron]

Even though my opinion is that the game really don't need to have a focus on first rates. Rather I think the game would benefit with more 18 pounder and 24 pounder frigates as a focus (a class of ships US is already famous for). My understanding is that the armament on the USS Pennsylvania is a bit too modern for the games setting. The Pennsylvania had 12 or so 8 inch Paxihans that fired exploding shells, something that really came in to use after the Napoleonic wars. 

 

[Surcouf]

France was the first to build frigates of 24 with La Forte and L'Egyptienne by the shipbuilder Caro.
Unfortunately they did not have success in France unlike the US.
Later France "copied" the US 24-pdr frigates. And in France, all the frigates are built in 24-pdr... (year 1820/1824) LOL.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

Sea Legends website talks about "18th century" ships. I really hope we stay with that and no ugly anomality monsters like this Pennsylviana will spoil the whole thing.

Naval Action goes already to the borderlines of age of sail, I expect SL to be staying true to the century, that would have to exclude Napoleonic era ships as well, if it would be handled strictly.