Hidden mechanics and weapon damage degradation

[Taqtaq]

Thanks @pandakraut

[pandakraut]

On 2/24/2019 at 6:15 PM, Taqtaq said:

Is there a modifier for melee damage based on the unit type?

Here are the melee damage received modifiers

infantry: 1.05

skirmishers: 1.15

artillery: 1

cavalry: 1.05

[Taqtaq]

5 hours ago, pandakraut said:

Here are the melee damage received modifiers

infantry: 1.05

skirmishers: 1.15

artillery: 1

cavalry: 1.05

Thanks

Although actually I meant multipliers on melee damage done not recieved...😅

[Taqtaq]

I have two questions:

1- How does the "flanked" penalty work? I mean is it like either the specific multiplier (nearly 1.5) applies or not? OR it depends on the angle of recieved fire, so the multiplier builds up progressively as the incoming fire's angle gets closer to 90° degrees related to your flank?

 

2- In some battles (Shiloh for example) you get reinforcements or you assign more than one corp. How can I know which brigades will appear first? I mean in general how can know the order of my brigades' appearance in any battle?

Edited March 2, 2019 by Taqtaq

[pandakraut]

1 hour ago, Taqtaq said:

Although actually I meant multipliers on melee damage done not recieved...😅

No modifier of that kind by unit type that I'm aware of.

1 hour ago, Taqtaq said:

- How does the "flanked" penalty work? I mean is it like either the specific multiplier (nearly 1.5) applies or not? OR it depends on the angle of recieved fire, so the multiplier builds up progressively as the incoming fire's angle gets closer to 90° degrees related to your flank?

Appears to just be a flat modifier if the unit counts as being hit from a particular side. No percentages involved.

1 hour ago, Taqtaq said:

2- In some battles (Shiloh for example) you get reinforcements or you assign more than one corp. How can I know which brigades will appear first? I mean in general how can know the order of my brigades' appearance in any battle?

The default left to right top to bottom. But there are some battles where the last unit seems to vary for no apparent reason. D-Dub's guides are the closest you can get to a full list and it's missing a lot. I've slowly been providing updates for the CSA side but in most cases I'm just restarting the battle multiple times to see what comes in when and where.

Edited March 2, 2019 by pandakraut

[Taqtaq]

Is there any difference between charging and moving to melee in terms in terms of melee damage and unit speed (or any other difference)?

[pandakraut]

20 minutes ago, Taqtaq said:

Is there any difference between charging and moving to melee in terms in terms of melee damage and unit speed (or any other difference)?

Charging gives you a melee bonus, speed bonus, and a morale bonus. There is no rampup time that I can tell so I tend to wait to charge until basically in melee range to maximize the charge duration. I'm not much of a melee player though.

[Taqtaq]

1 hour ago, pandakraut said:

Charging gives you a melee bonus, speed bonus, and a morale bonus.

How much bonus we're talking about (big or small)? Do you have its exact/approximate amount?

[pandakraut]

1.25 - 1.5 for melee, morale bonus is 20%. The speed numbers aren't as straightforward. Probably better off putting two units next to each other on a battle like Seven pines and having one charge and the other walk/run to see the difference.

[Taqtaq]

Thanks

A technical question😅: Where do you get these data from? I mean is it easy to get these information (Like just opening and looking into certain files)?

[pandakraut]

7 minutes ago, Taqtaq said:

Thanks

A technical question😅: Where do you get these data from? I mean is it easy to get these information (Like just opening and looking into certain files)?

Either have to get it from the resources.assets file using a hex editor. Preferably one of the better ones that translates more of it into readable text. Or you need to use a decompiler to be able to add logging code to print out the relevant values. I mostly use the 2nd option.

[Taqtaq]

Thank you 👍

[Taqtaq]

Hi

Does flank/rear bonus apply to melee attacks? Or it's only for ranged attacks?

[pandakraut]

2 hours ago, Taqtaq said:

Hi

Does flank/rear bonus apply to melee attacks? Or it's only for ranged attacks?

It looks like there is a side bonus for melee, but it's not the same as ranged and the way it's written I can't get you specifics.

[Taqtaq]

Thanks

[Lucasiewicz]

On 6/17/2018 at 5:57 AM, pandakraut said:

Optimal Unit Sizes for Damage
These vary slightly based on weapon damage. The benefit of adding men/guns decreases significantly prior to these limits so using a slightly smaller size will be more optimal if money is a concern.
- max artillery size for ranged damage ~14
- max skirmisher size for ranged damage ~375
- max infantry size for ranged damage ~1845
- mounted cavalry ranged attacks never fall off due to unit size. Larger units will always deal more damage. 
- The benefits of adding more men to mounted cavalry starts to yield decreasing returns between 500-600.
 - dismounted cavalry have the same optimum size as normal skirmishers at ~375
- melee damage will always continuously go up based on size though for some unit types it will do so at a diminishing rate.

Would this still count for the Rebalance Mod? Or are some underlaying parameters changed?

[pandakraut]

1 hour ago, Lucasiewicz said:

Would this still count for the Rebalance Mod? Or are some underlaying parameters changed?

Still applies in the Rebalance mod. Past the max sizes in the base game damage scales linearly. For artillery damage surpasses a 14 gun unit at around 40+ guns. Skirmishes cap out at about 75% of a 375 man unit and infantry have a brief dip but will be doing more damage again around 3k+.

This applies to 1.24 and early versions. The curves are getting replaced in the next version to fix this.

[Lucasiewicz]

would this guide you refer to on the first page still be a good read? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1105446690

I find all the info here with all the parameters and modifiers etc rather overwhelming and somewhat complicated at first. But, what keeps me from immersing myself into all that hard data is the somewhat gamey feel to it.  I like to immerse myself more as a commander would have back in the time 🙂 He wouldn't have had "acces" to those data. On the other hand, a good commander evidently would know the quirks and perks of the materials used by his soldiers. It's a fine line to walk between crunching those gamey numbers and being an insightful general...

[pandakraut]

48 minutes ago, Lucasiewicz said:

would this guide you refer to on the first page still be a good read? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1105446690

I find all the info here with all the parameters and modifiers etc rather overwhelming and somewhat complicated at first. But, what keeps me from immersing myself into all that hard data is the somewhat gamey feel to it.  I like to immerse myself more as a commander would have back in the time 🙂 He wouldn't have had "acces" to those data. On the other hand, a good commander evidently would know the quirks and perks of the materials used by his soldiers. It's a fine line to walk between crunching those gamey numbers and being an insightful general...

That guide is excellent and the conclusions drawn from extensive testing line up remarkably well with the actual numbers. While I would debate a few things, they are all minor points that don't even come up unless you are trying to optimize a few extra percentage points of damage.

I think the two most important takeaways if you don't what to dive into spreadsheets is that there are negative returns from units that are to large, and cannon performance is significantly influenced by the range curves which the base game provides little to no information about. Both of these are fixed to an extent in the UI & AI Customizations mod.

 

[Lucasiewicz]

16 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

 I think the two most important takeaways if you don't what to dive into spreadsheets is that there are negative returns from units that are to large, and cannon performance is significantly influenced by the range curves which the base game provides little to no information about. Both of these are fixed to an extent in the UI & AI Customizations mod.

  

That is exactly why I asked you if those numbers mentioned in the OP of this thread are still accurate 🙂 Looks like I'm all set to build my CSA army on MG now! Are there any other noteworthy guides like Soldier's guide to artillery? One that zooms in on muskets, carbines, etc. maybe? I've peaked around somewhat yet, but there's a downside to being dropped in the middle of forums of games that are released a couple of years ago, information is more spread out or outdated, certainly when (extensive) mods are at play. But I'm no stranger to the war-tactics of the days, just not a American Civil War connoisseur. 

We know how to put up a defence 😉

Maybe I was a bit to aggressive with those 6pdr's though... Lost quite a few of them.

[pandakraut]

46 minutes ago, Lucasiewicz said:

That is exactly why I asked you if those numbers mentioned in the OP of this thread are still accurate 🙂 Looks like I'm all set to build my CSA army on MG now! Are there any other noteworthy guides like Soldier's guide to artillery? One that zooms in on muskets, carbines, etc. maybe? I've peaked around somewhat yet, but there's a downside to being dropped in the middle of forums of games that are released a couple of years ago, information is more spread out or outdated, certainly when (extensive) mods are at play. But I'm no stranger to the war-tactics of the days, just not a American Civil War connoisseur. 

We know how to put up a defence 😉

Maybe I was a bit to aggressive with those 6pdr's though... Lost quite a few of them.

As long as they were just the allied ones it was actually just a benefit for you since you can recover their weapons. Up to you if you want to suicide your allied troops though.

I don't know of anything close to an equivalent for rifles/carbines. The main thing with rifles if you aren't using a mod is that all of the effective ranges are actually 300 except for the henry. You are generally fairly safe assuming that more expensive = better, though it is rarely worth the cost to actually buy the best rifles or the repeaters. Better to just use whatever you are capturing from the enemy.

Carbines tend to be mediocre across the board due to their shorter ranges. The enfield and the spencer carbine are the two that stand out.

[Lucasiewicz]

1 hour ago, pandakraut said:

As long as they were just the allied ones it was actually just a benefit for you since you can recover their weapons. Up to you if you want to suicide your allied troops though.

I don't know of anything close to an equivalent for rifles/carbines. The main thing with rifles if you aren't using a mod is that all of the effective ranges are actually 300 except for the henry. You are generally fairly safe assuming that more expensive = better, though it is rarely worth the cost to actually buy the best rifles or the repeaters. Better to just use whatever you are capturing from the enemy.

Carbines tend to be mediocre across the board due to their shorter ranges. The enfield and the spencer carbine are the two that stand out.

I know I can sacrifice my allied troops and it won't be detrimental to my campaign in the long run, but that feels a little bit gamey to me as well. Though I do lean towards putting them in the toughest spots if they're up for it... It's really hard trying to fight and the Union AI and my own brain telling me not to exploit game mechanics  

For clarity's sake, I'm playing with the rebalance mod and that one did shift around with the guns and artillery stats. I'm not going back to vanilla, so everything I'm getting myself familiar with should be in that regard 🙂

[Atillaca59]

Great info, very helpful. Thanks👍

[SteMat]

On 6/17/2018 at 5:57 AM, pandakraut said:

- Base Damage Calculation is Weapon damage * Random value between AccuracyLow / 100 and Accuracy High / 100. 

 

This Random value is linear distribution (=one dice roll) or Gaussian distribution (=2 dices rolls)?

[pandakraut]

Added surrender mechanics section.