Why I liked it at the beginning and do not play it anymore

[jenikok]

I have liked this game from the start very much, when the armies you had to handle were small. However it got worse and worse with every add on and I stopped playing it eventually. Here are some reasons why I start it only rarely now:

- enemy has always better equipment - I noticed that it does not matter if I play union or confederate guys

- while not observed your units behave like morons, not like veterans - your men usually start heroic chase after routed unit right into enemy fire instead of holding the line at least theoretically. Real class act. In the end I just ended up stopping units from doing something stupid  - instead of masterminding briliant tactical maneuvers

- focus gets stuck - order your men to hold ground and fire on enemy -> they rout the enemy unit, but the focus remains, so they sit on the line and let the rest of enemy units destroy themselves. Is it really reality like?

- I just do not see much of the glorified AI. Most of the flanking maneuvers are done by the fact that on many maps enemy units just appear behind your lines. Enemy is charging against much stronger forces you have and on top of it, it is usually working for him. Seems to me that what this AI is all about is considerable boost on enemy forces stamina and morale

- regularly, less experienced computer units are better than your veterans in one on one shootout / charge. The other way around your guys get slaughtered

- and the last annoying thing - does not matter whether you win the whole time in a decisive way. It has no effect on the enemy. Basically one screwed up battle on your part and you'll never get your numbers back

all on the top said, I enjoyed playing the game, it is really good, but these things really drove me off - total lack of balance between your and enemy units, this moron-like behavior while chasing the enemy and of course the last one. Where is the motivation, if you excel in one battle and you know that the enemy will be only stronger because of it in the next

Edited March 21, 2017 by jenikok

[The Soldier]

Enemy weapons scale with your own.  They will never have better equipment, only match yours.

Issues with melee dragging (as it's been called) are annoying as hell, no idea if or when that will be fixed.

You ordered them to fire on them, it's only logical that they chase them.  Order them to stop afterwards.  Do mind that if you order a unit on Hold to fire on an enemy out of range, it'll break Hold to move into range.

Yes, but it's been improving over the last few patches, minus the reports of charge-happy AI.

That's just you having bad positioning on your part with your units.  Watch cover.

No idea what you're talking about.

Edited March 21, 2017 by The Soldier

[Col_Kelly]

If you want your victories to have a bigger impact you can try the new mode implemented with latest patch (Fixed Ennemy Strength). No matter what you do AI armies will have the same size meaning you'll get a bigger advantage as the campaign goes on.

Also I can assure you that the AI doesn't get buffed stats ever. Sometimes he'll have more veterans than you but he doesn't 'cheat' in any way stats wise. 

[Wandering1]

The 'buffed' stats really only come into the picture when you are playing the higher difficulties.

Stats in general are controlled by a scenario level multiplier for the AI; on BG, this is typically close to 1. There are a few things that make it higher, but not on the scale of 1.5 and 1.75 that you see in Hard/Legendary.

[Col_Kelly]

21 minutes ago, Wandering1 said:

The 'buffed' stats really only come into the picture when you are playing the higher difficulties.

Stats in general are controlled by a scenario level multiplier for the AI; on BG, this is typically close to 1. There are a few things that make it higher, but not on the scale of 1.5 and 1.75 that you see in Hard/Legendary.

Stats are not buffed whatever the level. 'AI enemy strength' bonuses only impacts numbers, not stats.

EDIT (made after Wandering1 publishing the log) : By that I meant that a 1 star player unit will have similar stats as a 1 star AI unit regardless of the difficulty level

[Jamesk2]

9 minutes ago, Col_Kelly said:

Stats are not buffed whatever the level. 'AI enemy strength' bonuses only impacts numbers, not stats.

Really? Explain to me why I'm seeing every a f* ton of 3-star brigades in the Union rank at Malvern Hill? If you want screenshot I can provide it in a moment.

[Wandering1]

13 minutes ago, Col_Kelly said:

Stats are not buffed whatever the level. 'AI enemy strength' bonuses only impacts numbers, not stats.

To copy and paste the same log output that I placed inside an Antietam thread...

North Milroy c: 0.7821705 =aiAverage/playerAverage*aiArmyBonus 2018/(1720*1.5) Cdiff:2.458333 aiTotal/playerTotal: 59/24 kindDiff: 2.0625 aiKindTotal/playerKindTotal: 33/16
North Update Milroy HP:2739 adapted:2739 to 2950 coeff:1 diff:1.25 crossEffect:-0.07 rand:0.2395332 Clamp01(average*(countDiff+kindDiff*2)/3): 0.7821705*(2.458333+2.0625*2)/3=1
North Update Milroy initial eff:19.2 st:19.6 mo:19.1 me:20.5 f:20.5
North Update Milroy attributes coeff:0.6690562 bonus:1.873249 eff:53.75689 st:54.87682 mo:53.4769 me:57.39668 f:57.39668
North Weapon update Milroy rifle_US_1855_58_RF|31 new:rifle_US_1855_58_RF|31 coeff:1.761364

I have bolded the output that is meaningful, and underlined what I am talking about. I am not at home at the moment, so I cannot provide log output of something for a Brigadier General campaign, but the 'bonus' attribute would be much lower on Brigadier.

[Col_Kelly]

To James2K

This is the AI receiving superior units. Not the same as in total war where the AI has better stats by default at all time and places. Yes AI receives some advantages in some scenarios on higher diff but which games doesn't ?

I'm saying this in answer to the OP claim that AI receives 'considerable boost', which is not true.

To Wandering 1

This is rather unclear. From my experience in BG/Hard/Legendary the AI routs just as fast and certainly doesnt hold for twice longer against my volleys... he's not twice better when fighting me in melee. etc... etc... Needless to say that I don't see how that bonus would apply on a unit that has 60+ value on any of his attributes (since the limit to a stat is 100 no matter what). Apart from Rio Hill the unitz I captured on legendary never had a 100 value on all stats

[Andre Bolkonsky]

8 minutes ago, Jamesk2 said:

Really? Explain to me why I'm seeing every a f* ton of 3-star brigades in the Union rank at Malvern Hill? If you want screenshot I can provide it in a moment.

Yes. You are seeing a FT of 3-Star Brigades. We have all seen them. They are there for a reason. The very good players in this game can beat the best units the game can throw at them, but it is very hard to get that good. The game allows you to scale your competition.

However, the the AI did not receive an additional buff, they are merely superior units. 

This is not necessarily directed at you. But we've seen A LOT of people on this forum who get offended if you suggest they learn the game playing it on Easy and then attempt the harder challenge when they have the game mechanics worked out. They would rather jump straight into Hard then immediately say it is too hard. Well . . . . there is a reason for that. 

[Wandering1]

@Col_Kelly

That is because you're expecting linear scaling of the statistics, whereas in fact, the stats are just one piece of the equation.

Just because you have twice as much morale as the guy you're shooting at doesn't mean the enemy routs in half the time; it just means he is less resistant to morale shocks (flanks/rear attacks).

Similarly, twice as much melee does not mean you melee twice as good; the melee skill is just one component of the melee equation (including the weapon's melee stat, in essence).

Edit: To your question of what happens when the base unit stats are 60+, that means the log output shows higher than 100 stats. Whether the game, after loading in this data, considers them to have greater than 100 stats is a different question; the UI just shows the unit capped at 100 in all stats if you capture the unit. I have seen in the log files 200+ statistics on load.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Wandering1

[Col_Kelly]

Thing is after hours of gameplay on different levels I never sensed a difference like in a total war game. If there is one it's so slim that it's in fact almost meaningless.

[Jamesk2]

4 minutes ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

Yes. You are seeing a FT of 3-Star Brigades. We have all seen them. They are there for a reason. The very good players in this game can beat the best units the game can throw at them, but it is very hard to get that good. The game allows you to scale your competition.

However, the the AI did not receive an additional buff, they are merely superior units. 

This is not necessarily directed at you. But we've seen A LOT of people on this forum who get offended if you suggest they learn the game playing it on Easy and then attempt the harder challenge when they have the game mechanics worked out. They would rather jump straight into Hard then immediately say it is too hard. Well . . . . there is a reason for that. 

1. There is no different between "superior units" and "additional buff" when it come to gameplay effect.

2. You have no idea who you're talking to, so I would advise to be a little less cocky in your attitude. I'm pretty sure my record at Legendary will beat the crap out of yours.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

3 minutes ago, Wandering1 said:

@Col_Kelly

That is because you're expecting linear scaling of the statistics, whereas in fact, the stats are just one piece of the equation.

Just because you have twice as much morale as the guy you're shooting at doesn't mean the enemy routs in half the time; it just means he is less resistant to morale shocks (flanks/rear attacks).

Similarly, twice as much melee does not mean you melee twice as good; the melee skill is just one component of the melee equation (including the weapon's melee stat, in essence).

Check that second paragraph. I think you mean the unit with the higher morale is less resistant to morale shocks. 

[Wandering1]

2 minutes ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

Check that second paragraph. I think you mean the unit with the higher morale is less resistant to morale shocks. 

The unit with higher morale would be more resistant to morale shocks. I think we're hitting semantics here. 

[Col_Kelly]

Just now, Jamesk2 said:

1. There is no different between "superior units" and "additional buff" when it come to gameplay effect.

2. You have no idea who you're talking to, so I would advise to be a little less cocky in your attitude. I'm pretty sure my record at Legendary will beat the crap out of yours.

You're blaming him to be cocky while being down right disrespectful... This forum has a tradition for polite exchange and I'd really appreciate it if you could keep it that way.

[Wandering1]

4 minutes ago, Col_Kelly said:

Thing is after hours of gameplay on different levels I never sensed a difference like in a total war game. If there is one it's so slim that it's in fact almost meaningless.

That is because, again, the stats themselves are not the biggest factor of change. They just cause some border cases to happen, like 3* artillery blobs out-meleeing shock cavalry in the open because they all have 100 melee (+ 10 for their artillery gun). The bigger noticeable change is the fact that the stats are directly related to the veterancy of the unit, and the game, to my observation, randomly assigns the 1*, 2*, 3* skills if the unit hit the appropriate skill level. Those 3* skills are the more noticeable changes if the enemy starts out-sniping you.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

16 minutes ago, Jamesk2 said:

1. There is no different between "superior units" and "additional buff" when it come to gameplay effect.

2. You have no idea who you're talking to, so I would advise to be a little less cocky in your attitude. I'm pretty sure my record at Legendary will beat the crap out of yours.

Yes. 

What could I possibly know about this game?

And, as I said, my comments were not necassarily directed at you but handed to the room. 

[Col_Kelly]

Just now, Wandering1 said:

@Col_Kelly

That is because you're expecting linear scaling of the statistics, whereas in fact, the stats are just one piece of the equation.

Just because you have twice as much morale as the guy you're shooting at doesn't mean the enemy routs in half the time; it just means he is less resistant to morale shocks (flanks/rear attacks).

Similarly, twice as much melee does not mean you melee twice as good; the melee skill is just one component of the melee equation (including the weapon's melee stat, in essence).

Thanks for pointing it out I'll run a few test on my own to see how much this impacts the gameplay. Still these modifications are pretty reasonable and not the 'considerable boosts' pointed out originally.

 

[Wandering1]

2 minutes ago, Col_Kelly said:

Thanks for pointing it out I'll run a few test on my own to see how much this impacts the gameplay. Still these modifications are pretty reasonable and not the 'considerable boosts' pointed out originally.

 

Well, the 'visual' impact is much less the stats (because the user doesn't stare at the stats in general), but rather the fact that all of the enemies are 3* units whereas the majority of your own are 1* units.

[Col_Kelly]

Just now, Wandering1 said:

That is because, again, the stats themselves are not the biggest factor of change. They just cause some border cases to happen, like 3* artillery blobs out-meleeing shock cavalry in the open because they all have 100 melee (+ 10 for their artillery gun). The bigger noticeable change is the fact that the stats are directly related to the veterancy of the unit, and the game, to my observation, randomly assigns the 1*, 2*, 3* skills if the unit hit the appropriate skill level. Those 3* skills are the more noticeable changes if the enemy starts out-sniping you.

Ok that makes it much more clear to me. This bonus multiplier is what creates the 3 star spams on some occasions.  It's a scenario-related buff and not an overall invisible buff like in other games. Thanks again for the clarification.

[Wandering1]

Just now, Col_Kelly said:

Ok that makes it much more clear to me. This bonus multiplier is what creates the 3 star spams on some occasions.  It's a scenario-related buff and not an overall buff like in other games. Thanks again for the clarification.

To be clear, I didn't include the entire log output, because the common user should not have to care about this in general; the base multiplier is done on a per-map basis per difficulty level. 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

32 minutes ago, Wandering1 said:

The unit with higher morale would be more resistant to morale shocks. I think we're hitting semantics here. 

Fair enough. 

You have an excellent track record for explaining things under the hood, but semantics is always a fun way to end the day. 

[A. P. Hill]

3 hours ago, Jamesk2 said:

... 2. You have no idea who you're talking to, so I would advise to be a little less cocky in your attitude. I'm pretty sure my record at Legendary will beat the crap out of yours.

No skin off my back but surely this sounds like someone thinking more of himself than is probably good for him.

In the meantime, my interpretation of this thread is the AI handed someone his ass more times than someone thinks it should, and now he's upset. 

The last line, based on the above diagnosis, sounds a bit hypocritical. Since you are complaining about game play, I doubt you have the record you tout on any level.

So I really fail to see how that statement, (read "threat",) applies here.

 

[civsully1]

5 hours ago, The Soldier said:

Enemy weapons scale with your own.  They will never have better equipment, only match yours.

Issues with melee dragging (as it's been called) are annoying as hell, no idea if or when that will be fixed.

You ordered them to fire on them, it's only logical that they chase them.  Order them to stop afterwards.  Do mind that if you order a unit on Hold to fire on an enemy out of range, it'll break Hold to move into range. AHHHH....That explains it!!!  Makes absolute sense. And that's why having a darker more visible weapon range lines will help especially those of us with less than perfect vision.....Thanks Soldier!!!!

Yes, but it's been improving over the last few patches, minus the reports of charge-happy AI.

That's just you having bad positioning on your part with your units.  Watch cover.

No idea what you're talking about.

 

Edited March 22, 2017 by civsully1

[Jamesk2]

5 hours ago, A. P. Hill said:

No skin off my back but surely this sounds like someone thinking more of himself than is probably good for him.

In the meantime, my interpretation of this thread is the AI handed someone his ass more times than someone thinks it should, and now he's upset. 

The last line, based on the above diagnosis, sounds a bit hypocritical. Since you are complaining about game play, I doubt you have the record you tout on any level.

So I really fail to see how that statement, (read "threat",) applies here.

 

You can see it for yourself if you doubt it. This is my newest try on Legendary, fully on this newest patch.

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