Revert Mast Changes

[admin]

On 12/26/2016 at 6:40 PM, TommyShelby said:

Tested some demasting today. 

(Trinc and bigger).

The Conclusion based on some quick testing and looking at numbers: 
Demasting is not viable. Not in duels and not in group fights. 

 

Placebo feeling i believe
Masts buff after the reversal of initial 30% is minor for frigates (10% hp and 5% thickness and non existent in 4th rates).

For example surprise is 79 vs 75 before (which is miniscule) and such change cannot make it suddenly not viable.

Constitution is an aberration - we will harmonize masts and thicknesses if this change is properly tested.

 

[admin]

4 hours ago, Yar Matey said:

Now that we got the changes, or at least most of the changes we were looking for with the revert of mast thickness.  I am curious as to why the Endymion, Ingermanland, and Agamemnon have such thick masts.  The Ingerrmanland and the Agamemnon are the biggest offenders here if the wiki is correct.  111cm puts them in a tier above that of the Bellona.  This makes no sense. 

Currently from the wiki:

Frigate:  86 cm

Endymion:  103 cm

Indefatigable:  103 cm

Constitution:  103cm

Ingermanland:  111cm

Agamemnon: 111cm

Bellona:  105 cm

all 2nd and 1st rates:  119 cm

 

source:  http://www.navalactionwiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

For gameplay balancing reasons masts thicknesses are based on the largest medium gun caliber penetration for that ship at certain distance. If we use historical penetrations all ships will be demasted from 1 broadside from any cannon.

Remember russian mercury vs 2 turkish ships of the line? That brig escaped because it partially demasted both ships of the line. Maybe we should make it historical but then all battles will be boring and all ships will be stationary after first couple of broadsides (without the mast repair on cooldown)

[admin]

On 12/22/2016 at 4:27 PM, akd said:

It was based on "feedback from PvP players," but not here or in the testing forum.

we talk to players directly in game, skype and other private channels in addition to the forums.

[TommyShelby]

4 minutes ago, admin said:

Placebo feeling i believe
Masts buff after the reversal of initial 30% is minor for frigates (10% hp and 5% thickness and non existent in 4th rates).

Constitution is an aberration - we will harmonize masts and thicknesses if this change is properly tested.

Like i said, before the Masts Buff patch demasting wasn't a viable tactic either when talking about Trincomalee and bigger.
The only ships i've seen demasted since the Carronade nerf is Surprises and Renommes. 
Most of the battle i've been in have been 50% Chain, 20% Raking, 25% Hull Bashing and 5% Demasting. 

There is currently no reason to go for the risky demast. Chaining is easy, efficient, reliable and most importantly it does not require you to get close to the enemy. 
When demasting you must close with the enemy, usually to 100 Meters if similar sized ships, to actually penetrate the masts and have a chance at demasting. Meanwhile you can be at 500 meters (Safe Distance) firing chain. 

I don't know who gave you the idea the demasting was OP before the Masts Buff Patch but it really wasn't. Well, perhaps in small ships like 6th rates/unrated ships? - I don't know about that as i don't sail those ships. But in big 5th rates and larger ships demasting wasn't being used at all. 
 

[Yar Matey]

I also tested demasting with a Bellona vs a 3rd rate, I was able to use my bottom and middle deck with the largest caliber longs available to the ship and was able to bring down the masts after a few broad sides.  Seems like demasting is a viable option at that tier.  I also ended up in a battle against 2 ingermanland's in pvp and was simply not able to demast these ships.  I managed to get away from the 2 ships and escape eventually, but was quite frustrated with how much abuse the ingermanlands masts could take, and the one I was shooing at with my Constitution's lower deck guns was built for speed.  Also, when I faced off against an indefatigable in my constitution, again I was simply unable to demast the ship.  I ended up getting the sails down to 60'ish % just from shooting ball into the sails, but alas!  The masts simply refuse to fall.  But ships like the surprise, the masts snap like twigs, and can have a mast fall in pvp from 2-3 well aimed broadsides.  If it was not for the surprises weak masts, it would be dominating all pvp right now, by using its maneuverability to stay on the enemy stern and kill the crew off.  I was also able to demast a frigate in pvp, but that took much longer to achieve, and I was also in a higher rated ship the constitution.

For some reason the ingermanland, and indefatigable seem impossible to demast with an equally rated ship.  This is from my experience, and why I originally brought up the topic and was looking at mast thicknesses of these ships. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Yar Matey

[Sir Texas Sir]

I keep reading folks say DUELS over and over that the demasting happens.  Ok most folks in them aren't your average casual players.  How much of a problem was this in normal OW and PB fights?   You don't fight the same when it's not a 1 vs 1 equal ship par up duels in these type of fights so to be honest something like a skillful demasting shouldn't be affecting every one.  Other games done this where they adjust games for the 1% elite and not for the 99% casual players (THE DIVISION?)   Once they figure this was screwing the game up for every one else they fixed it.  I have prob only demasted a hand full of ships and it was all ways me in a much bigger ship hitting the mast of a much smaller ship.  It's easier for me to just take down sails, but in those cases it's expected that a lucky shot would take out a small ships mast.   

 

I'm with most of ya'll revert back to thickness before the patch, but keep the HP boost to help keep them from happening so fast. 

[TommyShelby]

All those who argue we should keep the HP Buff of 30%. 

Let me ask you this: How many demasts did you see between Carronade Nerf and Mast Buff? (In Duels as well as OW Group Fights). 

And just to make sure its not forgotten: (Comparison of Demasting/Chaining before mast Buff and after Carro Nerf).
Demasting:
- Takes good aim.
- Requires you to be within 100 meters most of the time. (Your very vulnerable to enemy fire and you might risk being raked depending on position). 
- Takes several broadsides to take down 1 mast because only your main gundeck will penetrate. (1 mast = 10-40% Sail HP depending on mast).

Chaining: 
- Requires mediocre aim.
- Can be done from a distance where you aren't vulnerable to enemy fire no matter the positioning.
- 1 Broadside of chain can take 10-25% sail HP from a similar sized ship. 

I'd argue that Mast Thickness should not just be reverted but also lowered slightly on most ships bigger than a Trincomalee. 
If Mast Thickness was lowered slightly on all ships then we could start talking about buffing Mast HP slightly as well. 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by TommyShelby