Hold size

[Edward Canaday]

So I know why ships of war have a smaller hold, you want to encourage captains to sail trading vessels when trading.  That would in turn encourage more PVP throughout the world, and create a tension in the trader.  I like this and don't want it taken away.  What I DO want is a reason to actually use a man of war for my day to day sailing.  As it stands now, I have to use an LGV (I don't have an indiaman) if I want to attack traders because of the size of the cargoes involved.  If I take a frigate out (my ship of choice for these things), I have to stop and return to port every time I capture a ship.  This also involves sending my ship of war back to port without me, taking command of the trader, and sailing it back all so I can make the capture profitable. 

 

All that set up complete; would it be possible to create a "captured cargo" section on a ship that has a much larger capacity, with more slots?  This would allow people like me to stay out longer, sail farther, and actually enjoy the combat mechanics of the game instead of sailing for twenty minutes, make a capture, then turn around and sail back.  

 

If we can't do this, then allow the captured ship to be sent back with cargo still in its holds.  I'm even ok with giving a small (should be fairly small, like 2-4%) chance of the ship RNGing on some bad weather, or being sunk or lost in any of a hundred ways. I know this is more of a PVE problem and these are usually ignored, but it is part of the game and it's a part that bugs me.  I should be able to take at least two LGVs, or three or four smaller vessels, in my 4th or 5th rate ship before having to return to port.  

[van der Clam]

I think a good idea is to simply allow fleet ships to use the cargo hold. Cap a trader, send to fleet, and sail with it. It'd be pretty cool to see player fleets sailing around with multiple traders all loaded to the gunwales.

[Jean Ribault]

This isn't the first time this discussion has been raised.  It's one of the reasons the devs adjusted warship hold sizes a couple patches ago.  It's better now than it used to be.

 

That said, I still agree I'd like to be able to bring back a captured trader with it's loot still onboard, within my fleet.  Perhaps be able to assign one of my officers to take command of it too.  At the same time keeping command of my ship.  It would make me a bigger target for hunters, but allow me to chance my outing a little longer instead of bouncing in and out of port.

[Bach]

I should be able to take at least two LGVs, or three or four smaller vessels, in my 4th or 5th rate ship before having to return to port.

Why would a 4th or 5th rate ship be able to hold the cargo from x2 loaded merchant ships? There simply isn't the space. Even if the hull was larger you has guns, crew and the larger amount of supplies for each to consider. At best you could take the choice items off the merchants and sink the rest.

What happened in real life was the money and small but valuable items went onto the warship. A prize crew with a officer assigned to sail the rest back to port on the captured cargo ship assuming they didn't just burn it to the waterline and sink it. So maybe what the game really needs is a robotic prize crew feature sailing this back to port for you.

Until then I would suggest you do the following. Load up you LGV with guns and your frigate. Sail the frigate with the LGV in fleet. Once you have captured more goods than the Frigate will hold switch to the LGV with the Frigate in Fleet. Then continue till you fill the LGV up. If you do this with the officer "hold optimization" perk on you will be able to stay out long enough to capture a few merchants at a time. Get an Indiamen as soon as you can if this is your preferred play style. This is if you want to use the Frigate. Otherwise you could just continue to hunt in your LGV.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Bach

[Bach]

This isn't the first time this discussion has been raised.  It's one of the reasons the devs adjusted warship hold sizes a couple patches ago.  It's better now than it used to be.

 

That said, I still agree I'd like to be able to bring back a captured trader with it's loot still onboard, within my fleet.  Perhaps be able to assign one of my officers to take command of it too.  At the same time keeping command of my ship.  It would make me a bigger target for hunters, but allow me to chance my outing a little longer instead of bouncing in and out of port.

The problem is that players would turn this into cargo convoy fleets and start moving bulk deliveries at night reducing ships at sea and PvP. If you could do this you could sail x3 fully loaded Indiamen, at the same time, and move 18,000 mass units a trip.

[HardyKnox]

Never mind.  

Edited October 31, 2016 by HardyKnox

[Sir Texas Sir]

I would love to see some exploration ships added to the game.  Basically ships with a little more armament than a trader but more cargo hold than warships.   I would love to see some more mid job ships myself.  

 

Though when they come out with fleet cargo use I think they should stop the telporting capture ships at battles screen.  People need to get that prize ship or trader back to a port to keep the goods in my book.  Never understood how if you win a fight you can just teleport a ship back to your port.  Prize ships should be able to capture back if you can't get them to a safe port.

[Edward Canaday]

Why would a 4th or 5th rate ship be able to hold the cargo from x2 loaded merchant ships? There simply isn't the space. Even if the hull was larger you has guns, crew and the larger amount of supplies for each to consider. At best you could take the choice items off the merchants and sink the rest.

What happened in real life was the money and small but valuable items went onto the warship. A prize crew with a officer assigned to sail the rest back to port on the captured cargo ship assuming they didn't just burn it to the waterline and sink it. So maybe what the game really needs is a robotic prize crew feature sailing this back to port for you.

Until then I would suggest you do the following. Load up you LGV with guns and your frigate. Sail the frigate with the LGV in fleet. Once you have captured more goods than the Frigate will hold switch to the LGV with the Frigate in Fleet. Then continue till you fill the LGV up. If you do this with the officer "hold optimization" perk on you will be able to stay out long enough to capture a few merchants at a time. Get an Indiamen as soon as you can if this is your preferred play style. This is if you want to use the Frigate. Otherwise you could just continue to hunt in your LGV.

 

No, I don't want to sail around in a merchant vessel and pretend it's a man of war.  I suggested the larger hold size because of the current setup with not being able to put items in fleet ships and not being able to send the captured vessel away with it's cargo intact.  You argue against what ships couldn't do historically, but then suggest I sail around with a merchant vessel as an escort.  That makes NO sense.  Let me send the trading vessel away with it's holds full, add a small catastrophe chance, and take a small prize crew with it.  That makes the most sense, and it's also historically what was done.  I certainly wouldn't see a privateer, pirate, or Naval officer willingly send valuable cargo to the bottom of the ocean.  You make a recommendation for a particular type of play.  I want to sail, and take targets of opportunity, whether they be merchant vessels or enemy ships of war.  My options shouldn't be limited by MY hold size, they should be limited by my available prize crews and my willingness to fight shorthanded.

[Jean Ribault]

The problem is that players would turn this into cargo convoy fleets and start moving bulk deliveries at night reducing ships at sea and PvP. If you could do this you could sail x3 fully loaded Indiamen, at the same time, and move 18,000 mass units a trip.

 

 

You make a good point.  That certainly would happen, unless the only way you could load up your fleet is through capture, but even there I think there's probably a workaround or exploit to get around it.  But in the end, does that even matter?  If you are willing to sail your whole fleet with upwards of 10 million or more in value onboard and trust its security to a fleet of traders, then maybe you should be allowed to do so?  Pirates and privateers I think might welcome the new opportunities, and as for me I'd enjoy the thrill of it.

[Kiithnaras]

I think a good idea is to simply allow fleet ships to use the cargo hold. Cap a trader, send to fleet, and sail with it. It'd be pretty cool to see player fleets sailing around with multiple traders all loaded to the gunwales.

I do recall reading somewhere seeing that this was a planned feature, just not yet implemented.

 

I do think that we should not be limited to only 2 ships in the fleet - maybe up to 4-5 active fleet ships, and, like normal dockyards, 5 fleet ships per port. The limiting factor here with a large fleet would simply be crew - dividing 1100 crew up amongst 5-6 ships (including your own) would be a task, and you'd run the risk assuredly encounter the situation of stupid AIs doing something stupid. Still, it is a nice idea, conceptually, having one person sail around with a fleet of small ships, or a couple of larger ships escorting a trade fleet.

 

I don't think a separate captured hold is a good idea, regarding the topic. Trade goods as a whole just need to weigh less than they do presently.

[Bach]

You make a good point.  That certainly would happen, unless the only way you could load up your fleet is through capture, but even there I think there's probably a workaround or exploit to get around it.  But in the end, does that even matter?  If you are willing to sail your whole fleet with upwards of 10 million or more in value onboard and trust its security to a fleet of traders, then maybe you should be allowed to do so?  Pirates and privateers I think might welcome the new opportunities, and as for me I'd enjoy the thrill of it.

Less welcomed than you might think. Indiamen are fast 18# gun vessels with a lot of hit points and huge crews with nothing to do. Even an AI Indiamen will board and sink any player Surprise that gets briefly nose in the wind next to it. And the AI come with free marines. A player with one mule alt can move x6 Indiamen in a fleet to haul 32,000 units of cargo. Nothing short of a pirate squadron is going to stop him. Most off hours pirates travel solo or in duos. There just aren't enough In those time frames. Right now most Indiamen tend to have x2 hvy frigs for escorts. They move them late at night but not to the industrial level they would carrying three times the cargo.

[Jean Ribault]

I was sailing my exceptional indiaman the other day and I thought it was the slowest thing against the wind, lol.  I was wishing for my LGV back while being chased.  The only reason I was using it tho to begin with is that my LGV couldn't carry all the delivery orders at once, if I had another LGV in my fleet I could've loaded up I would've sailed those.  In that case I would've still been the same target for privateers, just two ships instead of one.  My opinion is it would add a new dimension to the game.  But I understand others like yourself might not like that option.  I look at it this way: risk-reward relationship, if you open it up to more reward then the risk should go up, I like that facet of the game.

[Jacob Elston]

I think a good idea is to simply allow fleet ships to use the cargo hold. Cap a trader, send to fleet, and sail with it. It'd be pretty cool to see player fleets sailing around with multiple traders all loaded to the gunwales.

 

Fleet ships can carry cargo, but cannot be transported. Otherwise this will be abused.

 

It would be nice to see more trade ships like Barques/Barks etc..