Restricting the capture of victory locations to infantry units

[varangian]

It's not a huge issue - it effectively disappears as a possibility after Day 1 - but it seems to me it would make sense to disallow skirmishers/videttes from capturing victory locations. Playing as the Confederates against a determined Union side their aggressive approach made for a good contest but the AI did have a bit of a fixation on victory points and, as there aren't so many units on the field in the opening engagement, it spent a lot of its time sending vidette units on the scenic route to Herrs Ridge. Since the Rebs have to hold that I therefore had to detach Archer - who hadn't routed for a change - back to clear them off. On this occasion it made no difference to the outcome but a slightly smarter AI (or a human opponent now we've got MP) would be able to exploit this to good effect. Whilst a Union infantry brigade or two on Herrs Ridge would indeed be a problem for Confederate reinforcements coming along the turnpike they'd be able to brush videttes aside easily enough so they couldn't really be said to have captured the location.

[blood-phoenix]

I completely concur.  The Confederate player doesn't have enough units to press the attack if they have to leave a Brigade behind to guard Herrs Ridge.  Besides, its completely ahistorical for something like a pickett force of a couple hundred mounted skirmishers to seize and hold an objective.

[David Fair]

The problem isn't that the Confederate player doesn't have enough units, or men - it's that in UGG they've turned 2 cavalry brigades into 5 units for the Union.  

 

With 25% of the cavalry troopers holding horses there should only be about 2,000 Union trigger pullers on the line in 2 brigades.  By turning 2 brigades into five units the flank and rear attacks crash the CSA morale.  Phase 1 is contrived to get the result the developers wanted - an arcade game in Phase 1 with the CSA stationary on Herr's Ridge.

[MikeK]

I've found that using skirmishers and maneuver work for a delaying action. The Confederate AI should not be led too far aside, and in any case Herr's Ridge can be recaptured by later arrivals or even Heth's skirmishers.  The Union AI in my AAR used two brigades to try to take that VP which avoided an awkward dilemma only because the Federals had been pushed far enough back. 

[R.E.B.Blunt]

For those struggling to win against union on the first day first battle. Try this strategy.

 

Bring Archer and Davis and all your cannons up north to capture Northern most VP for 500 points. Use your skirmishers to protect your cannons as they travel north.

 

The Union will press the attack and attack at Herrs Ridge/Tavern. They will also try and kill your cannons. Ignore Herrs Ridge. Protect your cannons as you swing north.

 

Pettigrew and Brock will arrive from the west end of the map, with them press the attack eastwards on the map.

 

Keep your skirmishers at Herrs Ridge to defend it. Place Pettigrew and Brock side by side and march west. Bring up reserve Artillery battery as it arrives. Place Archer and Davis side by side and march south.

 

In a pincer attack attack the remaining Union keeping up Enfilade fire on each union Brigade as they come up. Bring your cannons from the north and the west. Union will fall back do not give them any rest. Keep up the attack they cannot match your Morale and will rout in due time.

 

With this strategy you can defeat the Union with a Major Victory on any difficulty on the first day first battle.

 

Best strategy I have found so far...

Hope this helps you guys.

[Doge]

David Fair has it right. Skirmisher units need to be combined. I lowered all of them to >50% strength, but it took a lot more than it should've. A 1,000 man skirmisher brigade would be better. If this, then only Videttes should be disallowed from capturing VP's.

 

Just today I played a battle as the CS. I was able to take both Oak Hill and the Ridge, but a Vidette ran around the entire army and captured Herr's Ridge, which is just plain gamey and ridiculous.

 

Another issue I have is that capturing is too slow, only time I've had this problem. Cutler retreated through my lines (ugh) so I sent back Archer and Brockenbrough (weren't able to fight him alone). I easily routed him, but it took too long to capture back Herr's Ridge and I got another Crushing Defeat, even though I had everything except the Seminary.

[MikeK]

A regiment might be sent out to skirmish and that's the size of the skirmisher units on Day 1 in the game, but doctrine was to send out a company or two with formed supports - the same concept as was developed for skirmishing tactics in the Napoleonic Wars.  

 

It is hard to get my head around the idea of a skirmisher brigade or a brigade even on an occasion being employed as skirmishers in its entirety other than as a result of a disorganized retirement.  

 

====

A sound Confederate strategy on Day 1 that is more by the book is to roll forward with the guns leapfrogging forward behind the lines to take McPherson's farm and then post cannon on the farm hill with a nice field of fire east while a brigade on either side is angled to cover the broader front. The second battery priority is in close support of Archer when the Federal reinforcements come up and the Iron Brigade is a prime target to break.  

 

Artillery up front is important to beat up the opposing Federals and stay in good condition. Brockenbrough supports Archer and then extends the line south while Pettigrew comes up on the left. Heth's skirmishers can screen to either side but I use them as the link between the the two brigades in the initial advance.

 

All 4 brigades, or sometimes just 3, then roll forward to Oak Ridge and Seminary ridge in an rough line and drive the Federals off that high ground. Doing so efficiently keeps morale and condition good when this advance is over. Oak Hill can be a distraction that costs a more important objective. The priority is defeating the Federals and reinforcements piecemeal, right? With cannon brought forward to the ridges, two strong brigades on Oak Ridge and at the Seminary were able to keep the Federals to the east at a distance bay while one and then another was sent back to break the two Federal brigades that marched a circular route north back to Herr's Ridge. The key was to establish a position strong enough that troops can be spared to clear Herr's Ridge before the clock ticks down.

 

It is much better if the reinforcing Federals counter-attack McPherson's Ridge so they can be broken rather than facing a defensive build-up on Oak Hill, Oak Ridge, and Seminary Ridge.

[RichardMcCor]

Last night i experimented with artillery taking the VP. It works just fine. A little slow to get there of course and once there you have to leave them on the VP for a long time for it to take the VP location.

 

I think I sent Bender up to Oak Hill (northern most VP) and he took it.

 

Later you can help him out if he needs it.

[Edgy]

Skirmishers in a war game are problematical. Buford deployed his troopers to delay the Confederate advance, not stop them. In real terms this meant making Heth deploy his men into line of battle, in other words making them get off the road, and out of column. Playing as the Union I've tried testing Bufords ability to hold up the Confederate advance without those Vedettes, it's not easy, but it can be done.

 

Buford held the line until approx' 10:30am which in this game is not that difficult to do. In my testing the real problems start after Buford has done his job, because once the Yankee infantry have appeared Bufords units then seem to go into 'free roam' mode. This typically leads to two problems, either they run around your flanks and rout your artillery, or they head straight for that three thousand VP location on the Chambersburg Pike.....sometimes even both!

 

In my opinion, to sort out the morning problems on July the First two things could be done. First of all, if you are sold on keeping those videttes in game then they & the skirmishers need to loose their ability to capture VP locations, OR remove that three thousand VP location from Chambersburg Pike.

[varangian]

Last night i experimented with artillery taking the VP. It works just fine. A little slow to get there of course and once there you have to leave them on the VP for a long time for it to take the VP location.

 

I think I sent Bender up to Oak Hill (northern most VP) and he took it.

 

Later you can help him out if he needs it.

Which is even sillier, although at least the AI in the games I've played has never tried this. Add them to the 'can't capture' list as well. Maybe doing away with victory points altogether would be a better solution in the long term. Given the limits that an AI has in seeing the big picture it's inevitable that, if given an objective that's somehow more important than other locations, it will take decisions like this. So even if videttes etc. get deprived of the capture ability that will just be replaced by an infantry unit hotfooting it around the edge of the map in order to snag a victory location even if in the wider context of the battle it would make no real world sense to do so.