flaviohc16

I'll report in in 1940 The problem is not war-mongering per se, it's the fact that it destroys their GDP growth, I'm fine with the AI declaring war with me, the problem is that the AI is always at war with other AIs, so their GDP growth is hampered I'm Italian BTW, and I know about the Americans' large cruiser/battle cruiser insanity, to me the only problem is making one redundant, for gameplay purposes, when one is 20k tons bigger than the other (50% more displacement) without bigger guns, even by 1 inch. You are very welcome!!

Also, the oil 3 missing bug ( oxygen torps and auto reload 2 are there however)

so, reporting time! I'm in 1931, Usa, normal difficulty 1890 start. Playing with the 1.5.05 and nar 7.1 My economy is around 500 billions, which means that even after 40 years of campaign, I still can't go in permabuild mode. I have around 600k tons of shipyard, I would say that is the correct amount. The economy feels great, I have the money but I can't overspend. The only "problem" that I have campaign-wise is that the AI is too war-mongering, so right now I have basically 50% of the world GDP. This however is not a big problem, because it can be fixed by simply going up into the difficulty tree from normal to hard/legendary, so IMHO is the correct way of doing stuff. Ship design is fantastic! I'm starting to see really good and scary ai designs, properly built, both modern ships and old ones. You made a great mod and it's a lot of fun and improves the game a lot! Congratulations. Only problems that I have: - I keep having late tech stuff missing, in this case propeller 5 and auxiliary engine 5, I put a screenshots of this inside the folder, where you can see that I'm already researching super propellers and don't have those times unlocked. - I would really love to have the differentiation in max gun caliber between the large cruiser and the modern battlecruiser design, because the 1st makes the 2nd redundant, But those are really small things! I love your mod! have a rest, now I will update to 1.5.06 and nar 7.3. screenshots of the bug, the economies, my budget and world map: This is my GDP growth at war ( the screenshot in the spoiler is after the war ended)

As I said before, I had the same thing happening ( also ausiliary engine 5, auto reload 2 and oxygen torpedo)

there is a little bug at the "lightweight fittings" in the battleship hull tech tree

No, but it gives a 30% boost to the AI, and you are playing with a small-ish nation.

I also arrived at 1914. As always: US, normal difficulty, 1890 start. Did 18 years of peace, then went to war against spain, that collapsed 3 years in. I have to agree with @killjoy1941, the war economy was too taxing before, and nation go easily into a death spiral. Spain collapsed when they had more than half of their territories still untouched ( and they had an insane 21 provinces). I have a 117 billion economy, right where I wanted , slightly more is better, but probably with the change of the war economy you just did we are good. I would say that the economy is right. screenshots in the quote I'm in 1914, can I keep playing my campaign or the save is nuked and I have to restart? ( consider that I have built some fantasy turreted early CAs) Also, greatly appreciated the narrowing in caliber for Ca and CL. I hope I can try the new patch soon

Ofc I heard about Graf speed, but this is a ship that is straddling the line between CA and Bc, and limiting the caliber to 10 inch (10.9) would give you basically the same results, especially because you can limit the max caliber on a per-ship basis Ok, fine, but to me it's really limiting, especially for one-two one-off ships we have to open up a lot of possibilities that flatten the gameplay. ( The limit is not nation specific?). Even if it is not nation specific, you can limit it on a per-hull basis ( it is a lot of work though, this I can understand) I'm saying that there should be a limitation. And Furious would be basically a fast monitor, 2 guns wouldn't really classify it as a warship ( and this is also the reason it was concerted to a CV, because also the British did understand that it would be a stupid idea). This is 15-10 years before the scope of the game.

I would actually go against what @Fangoriously said, I would limit more the choices for calibers for both the players and AI, and also what you responded me, @o Barão, a couple of posts back, especially considering that NAR is a mod that want to aim for more realism: 1) min caliber for CA, off all ages ( so you can change this already): 8 inch, or at least 7 inch, so we don't have modern CAs with 6 inch guns ( and it happens often), and also sì that the 6 inch secondaries on pre dreadnought CA's are considered secondaries and not primaries ( what happen now with 6inch casemates, and infact you can't give them targhets separately). This would also speed up the AI. 2) Max caliber for modern cruisers 9.9 inches, because I still haven't seen any somewhat realistic proposal in real life about a modern ( post Washington naval treaty's) shipt hat is less than 25k tons and have guns bigger than 250mms (9.9'). If we want to give more freedom up to 10 inch guns. Especially because right now when I reach the modern cruiser I just slap 11.9 inch guns on 16k tons design and nuke everything that the Ai throws at me, even 100k tons bbs. I need modern BCs and BBS to have a purpose/meaning. 3) Min caliber for BBs, at least modern ones ( I know you can limit only max caliber and not min caliber on a single ship, I just asked the devs to add the parameter) : 10-11 inch, so we don't see BBs with 9 inch guns. And the bigger BBs should be limited to at least 14 inch guns. 4) the large cruisers ,( cruiser killers in real life), more than 25k tons, ( that are considered bcs by the game) should have the min caliber of at least 10 inch and max of 14 inches, so it would give also a nice continuity with both the CAs on the lower end and modern real BCs and BBs on thw upper end. 5) for modern BCs ( more than 35k tons), same as for modern BBs, they should have guns of at least 12 inches and up to 16 inches. Like, I want big ships to have a purpose, like they had IRL, especially because I can still make the early BCs, the 22k tons ones, have 20 inch guns. So, to recap what I would do and that you can do already: 1) min caliber for all CAs: 8 inches ( or at least 7) 2)max caliber for pre dreadnought CA's: 11 inch ( like now) 3) max caliber for all modern CAs 9 inches (9.9) 4) min caliber for the BCs, both modern and the 1st ones: 10 inches 5) max caliber for the "cruiser killers" , one of the last hulls between 25 and 35k tons, 14 inches. 6) max caliber for the BC 1, 2, 3 hull: 14 inch 7) max caliber for the modern battle cruisers and BC 4-5: 16 inch 😎8 )Max caliber for the fast Battleship ( last BC design) 18 inch 9)min calibers for all BBs: 11 inch. 10)max caliber for the first 3 dreadnought hulls: 14 inch 11) max caliber for the modernized dreadnought: 16 or 18 inch. I hope that I was clear in the explanation.

Also another QOL/realism issue: I have seen that in the parameters for the ships, you have the min and max caliber for all the class, but then, for the single hull, you have only the max caliber, can we add also the minimum caliber? So that we don't have modern heavy cruisers with 6' guns or modern BBs with 9-10' guns. This will improve also modding

I know, but I also know how much ships I have and how much they do cost, so I know what GDP is too much and when the economy will snowball. This is why I say I don't want 190 billions in 1914 More or less capacity? I will start a new campaign now with the latest patch You're welcome

so, i arrived at 1914 with the 1.5.03 economy ( the one before the latest nerf) As usual: USA, 1890 start, normal difficulty. I'm allied with Persia which has discovered oil since 1905, and I have both Venezuela and Columbia (pre-oil however). I started the war with Spain in 1908, which ended in 1911 with them getting wiped out ( they didn't collapse). During war I was growing at 8%, during peace I'm at 12-13%. As I believed, I ended up with 190 billions in GDP, too much, And UK is at 180 billions, France at 150. I would like to stay between 100 and 140 billions. I can't have everything active in peace, but money are not really that much of a problem, and I have a 800k tons fleet and I have quite enough money. As always, here is the folder, with also a sub-folder for the economy at the end of the war ( both during and just after the war) https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/16EtUbVJISi-Yn-ZPGOc1ossTNHK-qkZK?usp=drive_link For the " limiting of player choice" I would like to be even more limited, I will write more when I have time. Now I will start again with the latest patch and see how it goes

I'm still playing with the "old" (1.5.03).patch, but I would say that this time the economy has been a overturned the other way around. I'm in 1908, just started the war with Spain ( USA, 1890 start, normal difficulty,) I'm already at 100 billions of GDP, growing at 13.5% during normal economy and 8.8% during war, but I have Persia that has discovered Oil as an ally. Also I could build way more than before: Before I could build 16 15ktons CAs and 12 25k tons BCs, and when at war I was in the negative with 25% crew, 60% R&D and 100% transport recovery ( transport at 200% but with the slider at the maximum to recover transport losses) Now I built 36 CAs, 12 BCs and when at war I'm breaking even with crew at 50% and R&D and crew at maximum . I will play up to 1914 to see how it works out. As I said before, the targhet GDP that I would want in 1914 would be 120-150 billions. Let's see where I end. Then I will download the latest game and mod patch to see how it works out.

I will arrive at 1914 with the 1.5.03 economy and the will swap to this. I love/hate you, mostly love 🤣😘 I'm having some small bugs with the 1.5.03: Modern 2 secondary tower always present on all classes, even TBs. Auto reload 2, oil 3 and ausiliary engine 5 missing. And I would like to have, for the large cruiser and modern battle cruisers hull a bit more diversification in guns, because right now the can both have 15 in guns, and that makes the latter useless, I would limit the large cruiser ( the one with up to 37k tons displacement) to 14 inch guns, and the modern battle cruiser ( up to 50l tons displacement) to 16 inch guns, so that there is a nice progression also with the Fast battleship ( last item in that tech tree line) that has maximum 18 inch guns

YES! Like make it up to 100x if enemy is unseen ( now 30x) Make it 30x when spotted at ranges above to 20 kms ( now is 10x above 25km) Make it 10x between 20 and 8 km ( now is 5x between 25 and 2 kms) 5x between 8 and 2 3x below 2km like now

So, I kept going and, like last time, I arrived in 1931. My GDP is around 300 billions, economy is still right and now I'm growing at 8.5%, but I have Persia, Iraq and Venezuela all either under my direct control or Allied, so it doesn't get better than this growth wise ( during war I grow at 4.5% ). Other economies tanked hard due to continual war, with only Germany breaking 100 billions. I can have only 1 millions tons of old ships and I have to be extremely careful or I will bankrupt me, even limiting research, keeping transport in the middle and Crew to 0% In the last test we were at 1.2 trillion in 1931. As I said before, I would like to have my economy twice as big as I have now for the date that I'm playing. As always, here the folder https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15oIX4xNe5GHnAoRK6y4qct7slhbsIDJs Now I will love to try this new patch. Also, completely unrelated, the last update broke the file converter, even with a clean install, it's only on my end?

1.5.03 has broken the Json converter for me, tried even with a clean install and file integrity via steam.

So, reached again 1914, same set as before: Usa 1890 start, normal difficulty, now it's the year 1914. After 16 years of peace, wiped out the Spanish colonies, then Spain collapsed and i Gobbled it up (I love the fact that nations are more aggressive against ungoverned territories). Countries collapse way less and they do only after years of multi-front war, i would say that is good and realistic. Money are still tight i have my usual set of 16 CAs and 12 BCs (20k tons ones), just now i'm building 6 30k BCs, My gdp is 60 billions, with Germany at 66 and France nation at 50. The situation is better than before (1.5.02), but still during peace, i really can't have anything active and even now i'm running at a deficit with 500k tons mothballed and 200k tons under construction. I still see 2 problems: 1) Imho the economy is still too taxing, as i said last time, i would prefer to have my gdp around the 120-150 billions mark by this time (25 years of playing), especially considering that i'm playing on the easiest difficulty with the easiest nation ( for the record, I'm Italian, but i like to go for world domination). Maybe to not get the economy to snowball you could make every other parameter stay the same but just double the initial GDP of every nation at the 1890 start, or increase the growth rate just a bit: i would say that in the early 1900s a booming economy should grow 8-9% a year, meanwhile, i still haven't seen anyone grow at 7% with the latest modifications. 2) The shipyard is good in capacity (total tonnage)(250k total), but the size of the single max ship size keep snowballing: in 1914 i can already build 67k tons ships, when the max hull that i can have is 45-50k tons ( dreadnought 4), and in 3 years i will be able to build 80k tons ships, can someone keep one while decreasing the other without making a mess? Because the 1st 2 jumps are good: you start with 8.5k in 1890, then 11.5k in 1893, then 15.5k in 1896, Then it start to snowball: 21k in 1899, 25k in 1902, 32k in 1905, 39k in 1908, 51k in 1911, 67k in 1914. For the rest, i love this mod and i can't play without it. As always, the folder https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15oIX4xNe5GHnAoRK6y4qct7slhbsIDJs?usp=drive_link

@o Barão I have to agree with others, you might have overdone the nerfing of the economy. Same set as I did in the last tests: USA, 1890 START, Normal difficulty, so basically as easy as it gets. Now I'm in 1914, like in the other tests. I did 18 years of peace ( in the last 2 tests it was 14) and then went against Spain, I wiped all the colonies but I couldn't attack the core Territories because I didn't have the tonnage. China and the USSR collapsed in 1910, Germany and Spain are not that far off ( China reformed). I'm the most powerful nation on the planet, but I have 500k of ships, not even that new, and I'm barely breaking even, it's a bit too little IMHO, and I have the highest GDP at 60 billions, UK is at 50 and France at 35. This is basically 1/5 of the economy in the previous test and 1/25 of vanilla economy, it's a bit too aggressive, especially considering that I'm playing on the easiest difficulty and with the easiest nation, we should probably aim to have an economiy that is 3 times what I have now, so in the middle between now and the 1st test economy, maybe slightly more towards the 1sr test The shipyard is good I would say, both in size and capacity, I'm at 50k tons in 1914 with 250k of capacity, in the first 15 years is very limiting, as it probably should be ( maybe we should start at 10k tons instead of 8k). As always, here's the folder : https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1CVshMFio4G9gqnqAxx0wk0FT-PQux02n

Yeap

I disagree with everything else, but this is correct imho, there should be an incentive for longer shipyard expansion On the refit time, they are fine in my book

I love to help for the balancing, you make this game playable for me, as without the mod it's too fantasy. I can't play probably for the next week, so I'll probably wait for the NAR 1.5 update, but I will love to see how the economy and shipyard changes with these fixes.

Because some Governament have big penalties to GDP growth. The best one is right democracy, then right constitutional monarchy, then neutral democracy.

@o Barão so, i have kept playing the test economy and I'm now in 1931: (US, 1890, normal difficulty) I'm basically going for world domination. so, in 1931 the 4 biggest economies (US, Germany, AH, UK) have a GDP of: 1.2 trillion, 1.3 trillion, 850 billions and 500 billions respectively. The entire planet's GDP is around 5 trillion, which is close to reality, that was at the time around 6 trillions ( i'm taking the whole planet because we did so many conquest that comparing the nations to real life would be unfair) However i feel like from 1925 onwards the economy starts to snowball, and I can be in permabuild mode, i have 1 millions tons of shipyard capacity ( and max ship size of 330k tons!!). I have 4 millions tons of ships and every 18 months if we average between ships i can add 1 million tons, which means that by the end of 1945, I would have, considering other shipyard updates, around 20 million tons. The US at the end of ww2 had 10 millions tons of warships: considering BBs, CVs ( that i would consider other bbs in this game), cruisers, and destroyers. As the size of the economy is right, but we can still build too many ships, I would: -make late era ships (components/technologies) more expensive, probably by a factor of almost 2, so that you don't cripple the early game but make ships more expensive in the late games, ofc it has to be tested if this breaks the game in late era's starts. We could also try to balance with cost of research or transports, but it might be trickier (although faster to implement). -make shipyard growth slower, both in the sense of how much tonnage you earn per upgrade (capacity) and especially for how big a single ship can be(size), especially because now it's outright useless, because after the 1st 2 upgrades (that you end in 1894) you will never feel the need of upgrading your shipyard if we consider the max ship size. it should be something like: 1890: 10k tons 1900 15k tons 1910: 25k 1920: 40k 1930: 60k 1940: 90k 1950:140k basically that every 10 years you get your shipyard 50% bigger in size, if you are right on time with every shipyard upgrade every 2 years, or said in in another way: every shipyard upgrade should add 8% cumulative to the max shipyard size. But i don't know if shipyard size and shipyard capacity are linked together. Also the shipyard capacity should be 5-10 year behind. I Should reach 1 million capacity probably by 1935-40 something like, shipyard capacity: 1890: 100k tons 1900 150k tons 1910: 250k 1920: 400k 1930: 600k 1940: 1000k ( one million) 1950:1500k so basically shipyard size x10. Again, 8% cumulative growth per shipyard "tick" ( every 2 years). here again the folder with pictures of the economy, fleet composition and wolrd https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15oIX4xNe5GHnAoRK6y4qct7slhbsIDJs?usp=sharing

I would say that mk1 of bigger guns ( 14"+), the ones you don't get right at the start and have already the model for their start year, should be slightly nerfed, because right now they are a bit too competitive against their smaller cousins, especially considering that the 1st generation of a gun should not be competitive with the 2/3rd generation of a smaller gun. For example in my US campaign, I have mk3 12", mk 2 14" and mk 1 16", but their rof and range is close enough to be too good of a choice, and IMHO, it shouldn't be like that for a 1st generation of anything, but I would also understand why you did it this way, to give players more choice