killjoy1941

Another overblown argument all around. Torpedoes need to accomplish three things: They need to be fun as well as achieve a balance between usefulness and atmosphere. If they're not fun, players won't use torpedo-equipped ships. If they're over or under-powered, players will min/max to exclude them or will use them exclusively. Atmosphere is the hardest to achieve because it's by far the most subjective, but the devs have a track record of delivering, so I'm content to see how they develop what is still a very early alpha.

I think earlier calls for a mission editor could have some incredible value if some basic data reporting is inherent to the design. That way the devs could see what the preferred gun calibers, armor values, techs, etc. are. As for missions, we need one or two more AC/CL/CA versus missions to test the viability of said ships against themselves.

The last mission in the current alpha includes a Yamato-type BB, so AA, aircraft, and CVs are definitely not out of consideration unless the objective is a purely War Plan Orange-type game. See my thoughts on how CVs could work, and then AA guns and spotters and seaplane tenders become viable, though I'd reiterate that I believe such content would be better relegated to a DLC.

I would like to see CVs in the game. Having said that, I think implementation is important. I've played a good number of naval games for the period, and I think something along these lines would work: 1. CVs increase whatever scouting value exists in a sea zone by X to be determined by the devs. 2. CVs are granted a small number of strike packages which increase in number and effectiveness based upon CV use and tech. Basically, someone's going to figure out CVs are the future over time. 2a. CV strike packages start out relatively ineffective, and improve in effectiveness over time. 2b. The number of strike packages increase over time. 2c. Said packages are AI-driven. They weight for ship size and then randomly choose targets. The player should have no control and the CV should have no map presence. 3. If a CV or CVs enter a sea zone, they should start with zero scouting, enabling them to be engaged on the surface. They should automatically retreat into the wind, launching periodic AI strike packages against their potential assailants. Having said all that, I'd prefer Nick and crew focus on surface combat and return to CVs as the first ever DLC for their games. CVs require special attention and should be treated accordingly.

I think the secondary armament argument is overwrought. Casemated and secondary guns operated under individual (or near-individual) fire control for several decades. That's fully represented here. What should be represented is integration into a coordinated battery, which occurred over the 1920s through the 1940s, culminating in radar-controlled secondary batteries in the early 1940s. That can be efficiently be created through techs which increase secondary accuracy in three tiers, from the 20s through the 40s. Tech 1: Increases secondary accuracy by 30% for x money. Tech 2: Increases secondary accuracy by 60% for x money. Tech 3: Simulates radar-directed secondary batteries and increases secondary accuracy by 120% for x money. It's really that simple. Edit: Ideally, secondary batteries would be subject to individual fire control priorities from Tech 2 on, assigned by either the player or AI, but that's a clear dev decision.

That's precisely how you should play CSA Shiloh. Learning how to break the center before the Hornet's Nest opens is the only efficient way to win in vanilla legendary, and I still use it in the mod. I haven't gotten much farther yet, but I would venture a guess that since the same tactic works for Stones River and Chickamauga in vanilla, it'll work in the mod too. Well played.

Oh, and that's a good reminder: it's likely to affect Nansemond River in the Union campaign as well since you have to destroy several batteries there.

There are three. Two in the fort and one in the counterattack.

I'd guess the game doesn't register captured artillery as destroyed since artillery was never meant to be captured. Try gunning them down until they shatter instead.

You have to deploy them all the way forward, then immediately send them headlong at an oblique toward the advancing CSA brigades. It's even more delicate than Shiloh, but if you do it right, you should end up with reasonably intact skirmishers behind the CSA advance. It's more about harassing the artillery and disrupting the timing of charges by getting the infantry to wheel at inopportune moments than causing any real damage. Once they're down to about half strength have them retire out of the way into the woods to the northeast and northwest. Edit: Best results generally delay any heavy assaults until the rest of your 1st corps is almost up to the woods and fields which likely constitute your first line of defense. That's really the point of it.

Precisely, though I'll usually have at least half a division of infantry in the 2nd corps as well since I'll front-load all the skirmishers to wreck the AI assault staging.

Yes. It's really only an issue through Malvern Hill or so because after that you generally have the experience and weapons to counteract any sudden jumps in scaling, but I rarely try to have more than the exact number of required brigades for any given battle. That's true at least through Shiloh, and often I'll forgo reinforcement brigades through Malvern Hill to increase the impact of artillery. I discovered scaling by accident in vanilla when I tried to maximize the efficiency of my resources in Legendary by not buying veterans early. I'd just combine the hard veterans with blooded troops and let the large, rookie brigades get whittled down from a standard 1,800-2,100 at recruitment. That was the campaign where I saw the smallest CSA armies I'd ever encountered, and I came here to the forums looking answers. That's when I learned that your average brigade size determines the size of the brigades you face. Keeping your average brigade size to 1,200 or less and equal to or less in total than the number of allowed brigades per battle pays huge dividends at Shiloh and eventually at Malvern Hill. Leaders with no brigades to command don't seem to do anything though, so you should be safe to manipulate division structures in empty corps.

It has nothing to do with you. There are what? Around three to five people who've played through to later battles and given feedback? If we had even two or three more people doing that, it would be a huge improvement. Variance in particular has the potential to upend what are otherwise easy Union wins like Malvern Hill, 2nd Manassas, Gettysburg, and Chickamauga, not to mention allowing much more extensive testing of perks and weapons. If it's one thing I've learned about mods over the years, players tend to temporarily abandon them when they hit major roadblocks and wait for patches and features. It's far easier to just roll back your game, play with what you enjoy, and wait for others to fix things for you.

I'd be okay with 50%. Once it exceeds 60-70% it becomes excessive. I'm simply saying you might want to make it easier for testing purposes since Shiloh seems to be the big hang-up and there really aren't that many people providing feedback for you guys. I'd actually be fine with a very high hurdle at Shiloh in a finished or near-finished product.

Shiloh on MG with variance is far less skill than art just now. You have to play a very choreographed early match to win as Union. That's not a bad thing and it's probably well worth keeping for MG/Legendary players later, but I'm pretty convinced the CSA needs to be nerfed a bit for the moment if only to let your average player pass it and continue to test other mod changes that need further campaign play. The more the merrier in that regard, and unlike some of the later minor battles, Shiloh has an enormous impact on the campaign if lost or drawn. Right now it's seriously harrowing and requires exacting play - single mistakes can prevent you from advancing with anything like an intact army. Of course, if you get some favorable rolls when the battle is being set up you can win handily, but the potential for disaster is very high at the moment.

I pretty much use my skirmishers to spot enemy skirmishers so my artillery can blast them, then go on to smash enemy brigades with extremely concentrated fire in the late game. Read: from Chickamauga on. I'll generally have one Napoleon or 24lb Howitzer and one 3in Ordinance or 20lb Parrot per division, and one artillery division per corps by then (all 12 gun batteries), and I'll often concentrate them all on one brigade. I don't care how much panda and Jonny nerf guns, that kind of firepower will get results. Cav can spot for the guns too, and concentrated firepower is the way of the future. It just works. After that, your skirmishers can do as they please.

I know you're not. I'm sure your feedback has been invaluable. I won MG Shiloh with variance on by the extensive use of skirmishers. I used small skirmisher units with throwaway weapons to bait the CSA brigades all over the church and Spain Field maps. I delayed the assaults until my reinforcements reached the field, and I faced exhausted brigades which were then quickly routed over and over again thanks to the morale penalty. So long as you keep your skirmishers alive and behind the CSA lines, they can't ever build coordinated assaults if you keep them occupied. It's extremely difficult and basically cheating, but it works. Edit: Oh, and go full training with your initial build. You don't really need the recruit experience for any of the pre-Shiloh battles, but you'll definitely need the instant star for your skirmishers in Shiloh itself. It also allows you to focus on building your army for the battle instead of expending 3+ brigade slots for training up skirmishers before Shiloh.

Yeah, you just have to take the hard fights as they come. I haven't had much time to play over the last few months, but it looks like panda and Jonny are saving battle balance tweaks for the end of development, as they should. There are ways to win (I hold in force in the south woods at Logan's Crossroads for example), but it often requires multiple replays, extensive scouting, and some very artful play in the extremely lopsided battles like Shiloh.

Yeah, it's absolutely worth starting smaller and increasing your average brigade size over time. I had a couple 900-man brigades for MG Shiloh because I was using every weapon in the armory. My issue is always officers; I can never have enough until I've gotten through Fredericksburg, and I'll generally buy them all as well as use PPs to get them through Antietam.

Two-star brigades tend to waver longer before breaking when the damage taken per volley isn't sufficient to push them into rout, so it's easier on MG because you can get in two to three times the damage a one-star or rookie brigade will take before it runs. All the while they're not shooting or charging you, so it's much easier. It's a confluence of inexperienced player brigades, lower quality weapons, and AI brigade veterancy. The AI also went straight for my skirmishers on MG, something I had to tease it into doing on BG. No idea why that would be the case, but it was. Even with maximum Logistics, batteries can very quickly run out of ammo if you're not careful. It absolutely enforces a degree of fire discipline more common to vanilla, which provides a bit of a soft cap on the number of batteries you can take and still continuously be effective. Players who don't use the horse artillery perk will likely be much less aware of this since their guns will be firing far less often, but it should still be a thing with 10-12 batteries per corps. I meant more that the player can simply start increasing the size of their brigades if they're no longer being challenged. I generally run with 1,200-man brigades, but increased their size to 1,500 after Antietam, 1,800 after Fredericksburg, and 2,100 after Gettysburg. Chickamauga was a 190,000-man battle, with 100,000 of that being Confederate. It works for every battle series in the campaign and only borks the battles without player units, but we already know those need attention.

Anyway, here is my opinion on the mod as it currently exists, Union, BG and MG: There is little difference between BG and MG other than enemy unit experience. Scaling seems to be similar in both and damage is similar in both. Shiloh is easier in MG than BG, but most other battles are much more challenging in MG due to the weapons and unit experience. Artillery is supremely important. Have as much as you can as soon as you can. Build at least two skirmishers per corps. Build at least two cavalry per corps. Artillery feels balanced until you get the MG perk for accuracy. Then the range perks begin to become absolutely decisive with long range rifled guns. Shell damage could use a bit of a nerf. Cavalry could probably use a very soft boost. It works as-is, but needs a lot of micro. Artillery runs out of ammo very quickly, even with the logistics boosts. If this is intentional, it would better serve the mod as a soft limit on the number of batteries used. My opinion, but I think this is important. Corollary to the above point: I absolutely think artillery can be balanced by ammo. It's just an idea that batteries could be constrained by ammo usage, but it's one that's at least worth consideration. I like that the mod encourages scaling usage, and that it "punishes" players for ignoring it.

Yup, holding fire until the charging brigade is within about 250-200m. You disable the hold fire command, and they get a faceful of canister at about 100m or so. I don't use it too often, but it became a frequent tactic at Chickamauga, where it tended to net about 300-450 kills. It's a good battle to test artillery because the line is long (resupply problems), the targets many (reload issues), and the ever-present cover more or less demands you blast brigades out of it.

Any gun that's not rifled sits directly behind the infantry in my army. That's why I use the horse artillery perk; point blank canister is the only canister worth using.

I use the Horse Artillery perk exclusively. Having my guns forever within canister range with a flanking division is godly vengeance. I also keep a battery of short-range focused Napoleons with every division expressly for this purpose, with the other battery being long-range focused 20lb Parrots for a total of 120 guns per corps. With the three division cavalry corps, that's just shy of 400 guns. It's a Union campaign - you should be paving roads with guns.

I've literally never seen that in 1.12. Canister typically nets me 250 max unless I have 3-star, short-range focused batteries. My rookie 6lb guns at Shiloh were hardly even capable of vanilla casualties, with my best battery netting about 2,600 casualties having been incessantly firing the entire battle, and at canister/shell range the entire time as well. I've had 6lb batteries deal well over 4k in vanilla Shiloh. 20lb Parrots might be a little too effective, especially at range, but they're generally not getting over 2,500 kills per battle, and again, my vanilla 20lbers can and do deal far more damage. Chickamauga was the exception, but then I'd deliberately engaged scaling, so that was a 190,000-man battle. You kind of have to expect massive artillery scorecards in an environment like that. That's how I ran them, though I kept the numbers smaller. I had 3-5 300 man skirmisher brigades armed with '55s, '63s, and finally Spencers, per corps. I had ten at Shiloh on MG, though 3-6 would've been enough. You need to use much smaller units that you might think, at least until you get a couple stars and a much better efficiency rating. Cav actually gets awful if you pack more than 500 men into anything less than a high-efficiency, 2-star brigade. I'd also keep them at 1,000 max until the next version of the mod. Anything higher and they become entirely ineffective. Like skirmishers, they're kind of terrible until they get about halfway to their second star, so build one or two and take them to every battle you can. Also, Recon points are your friend. Once you get four, you'll be amazed at just how bold you can be with cav. The best place is behind a defensive line, just behind your infantry, and where there are no enemy batteries within canister range. When you break a brigade, run out to get some kills, and repeat as necessary.