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About Lieste

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  1. Lieste

    Bow guns for frigates without?

    The bridle port should usually give fire to the forward quarter. Few ships have specifically dedicated bow chase guns, most have either a choice of breeching points for a movable single gun (or carronade), or a port in the forward curve of the side which covers part of the forward arc as well as the direct broadside.
  2. Lieste

    'Eendracht' 1790 Dutch Ship (With Plans)

    (The Bofors firing included one recorded shot which passed through the 18" side, carried 500 metres further and went through a fairly substantial standing conifer, bounding further after this again)... Not something most museums can practically demonstrate
  3. Lieste

    'Eendracht' 1790 Dutch Ship (With Plans)

    That 12lb ordnance, was fired with less than a pound of powder, no shot (and you can see had no discernable recoil at all). Fired with shot and full charges it would make a much more 'crisp' firing signature and recoil some 10 feet or so if not restrained. See the vasa cannon firing for the 'real' thing, rather than a 'safe' museum demonstration. https://binged.it/2Sh09Ph
  4. Lieste

    Work in progress: Dreadnoughts

    More... "less necessary, given the also relatively low speeds possible", rather than unnecessary.
  5. Lieste

    Work in progress: Dreadnoughts

    M.33 6" Monitor in Portsmouth.
  6. Lieste

    World's oldest intact shipwreck discovered in Black Sea

    Olympias was built and operated with seated thranite, sygite and thalamite rowers. With demonstrated performance with an inexperienced crew of 9+kts, and an estimated 2.5kts continuous with rowing in turns by partial crew. While I have little doubt that the later gunpowder era galleys (with multiple oarsmen per sweep) did work them standing, I am unconvinced that the classical trireme was designed for this - it is a fairly 'compact' arrangement of men and oars. I am open to persuasion, but it seems improbable given the height of the ship and it's draft to fit three banks of standing oarsmen, when the three banks of seated ones leave the lowest oar ports quite close to the waterline, and precious little headroom below the deck. And the Lenormant relief shows obviously seated oarsmen. If a trireme has seated rowers, then standing rowers in a bireme or pentaconter (the ancestors of it) are also questionable, particularly in the bireme form.
  7. Lieste

    World's oldest intact shipwreck discovered in Black Sea

    Within reach is a few hours or days hopping between islands when weather is favourable, rather than extended voyages out of the sight of land for weeks or months at a time. It is also a preference, rather than a rule.
  8. Lieste

    World's oldest intact shipwreck discovered in Black Sea

    Not at all sure about merchants, but Greek city states, the rowers were not slaves. Freemen, and an important part (perhaps the most important) of the weapon system, which also included the Hoplites on deck and the ship itself. Without well coordinated, skilled and strong oarsmen the whole ship (and the squadron of which it was a part) could be destroyed by failure to navigate treacherous waters or battle safely. Later Roman galleys did use slaves in some cases (but I'm not convinced universally) and had a reputation of relatively poor seamen - made up by excelling at boarding, with much larger galleys and equipment specifically aimed at the boarding fight.
  9. Lieste

    World's oldest intact shipwreck discovered in Black Sea

    My understanding: Classical era ships were predominantly rowed. The courses were only useful with a very specific range of winds, while oars could be used to manoeuvre close inshore, and even on lee shores with little risk, allowing access to sheltered coves. They were relatively low freeboard, and fragile ships, so tended to stay within reach of the shore - being caught in open water during a strong storm could be disastrous. If you reached a sheltered beach you could draw the ship sternfirst onto the shore and wait out the bad weather. In the early classical period there was little difference between ships of war and trade, but later refinement of both drew them further apart, with additional banks of oars increasing the power and agility of the warships, and increased volume of the hull increased cargo capacity of the merchant vessels.
  10. Lieste


    Various notes and graphs relating to Gunfire
  11. Lieste

    Maybe some ships that might see the light of day?

    As I noted in another thread, the 'pocket' US heavy frigates are closer in size and power to the Leda class (as represented in game by the Trincomalee) than to the Consitution or the other two heavy Frigates. They have 18lb guns, and are of similar length and beam to the RN 18lb frigate classes, while the 24lb Constitution is 20 feet longer and as broad in proportion.
  12. Lieste

    Maybe some ships that might see the light of day?

    Concord/QAR is a 24 or 28 'frigate built' merchant ship (ex-slaver). The supernumerary ordnance is almost certainly small galliard pieces and swivels on the rails and in the tops. She hasn't been recorded with anything heavier than a 6lb gun so far from the wreck site - at least that I have seen, and IMO that would be heavily promoted if it were so.
  13. Lieste

    Combat feedback

    A 56cwt 32lb gun could be expected to perforate the hull of a 74 at gundeck level beyond 1200 yds (and with doubled shot and reduced charges to around 400 yds). Except by random 'luck' or at velocity close to the marginal one, the resulting shot hole was 'closed' by a mass of splinters sufficient to resist passing a finger or pencil. However the 6.15" shot would far more reliably 'split' or shatter an individual frame or plank when the velocity was appropriate than a smaller shot, and the 32lb of iron was reliable at dismounting, deforming or otherwise disabling ordnance or carriages than smaller shot. Naval ordnance tended to be much heavier in construction than that for land use, as low mobility was no objection, and the heavy ordnance recoils in a much more gentle manner
  14. Lieste

    How much Broadside Momentum is delivered...?

    If we take a 24" oak target, drag from naca data and a closed form flatfire approximation for ease of calculation: (input data in customary units, all internal calculations in SI to avoid conversion errors and mishandling) Using single shot and full charges: 36 livre (38.88lb) 1450fps (and same powder constant used for the two other ordnance - note this is a lower constant than that which matches given RN velocities for greater windage, with similar output velocity, your value) 24 livre (25.9lb) 1430fps (estimated from ordnance dimensions) 12 livre (12.96lb) 1340fps (ditto) At 100m, the residual velocity would be (roughly) 1352fps, 1320fps and 1216fps respectively. So the "raw" impulse of the whole broadside, stopped, would be 240,560 Nm But (using the Didion/Bashforth coefficients for penetration) only around 690fps for the 36livre, 750 fps for the 24 livre and 893fps for the 12 livre are needed to perforate the 24" 'target'. Exit velocity can be estimated (probably with some error, but close enough for general comparison) by leaving a residual penetration equal to the maximum expected less than the target thickness and solving for velocity. I find these as 850fps, 757fps and 524fps respectively and only a portion of the original impulse is delivered to the target on the first structure. In this case ~102,000 Nm. note that reducing velocity to the minimum for penetration and 'just falling out' of the rear of the target results in somewhat more impulse (133,400 Nm in this case) than only punching neat holes with excess velocity, despite much lower firing impulse...
  15. Lieste

    Bring boarding to a new level

    The 1815 British version of the 1812 Kreigspeil has ranges for infantry fire of 400 paces (2000 paces to the mile by definition in the rules). 6lb field gun has a canister range of 400 paces, low angle fire to 800 paces and elevated fire to 1200 paces, with random fire out to 1800 paces with minimal effect. 12lb field guns have slightly more effect to 500/1000/1500/2000 paces respectively. In all cases closing has a greater effect and is more efficient in ammunition use.