TommyShelby
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Posts posted by TommyShelby
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2 minutes ago, Rick Astley said:
You would have the same troubles then, players would just wait by the free port. I cannot see how a balance can be brought up with this with exploits for traders in Pirate or alts.
People wanted a hardcore PVP game, now they have it they don't want to be ganked themselves. Just cannot see what the devs can do to make it fair for everyone. Maybe have the game how it was this time last year.
Revenge fleet will have to make a choice;
- Stay at battle location or go to Free Port.
- Split up and try to cover both or stay together and cover only 1 of them.
Also means the person who escaped the revenge fleet 1 time already (Because you'd have to escape revenge fleet 1 time and you can't defensive tag) can log off in the free port if he has stuff to do in real life.
It also means people can't be repeatedly tagged for hours upon hours (I call it griefing). Generally it just makes the game a bit more accessible to those that don't have unlimited time.-
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Just now, Sansón Carrasco said:
@Liquicity I hear what you are saying about being frustrated by revenge fleets, but adding in a post battle "teleport to port" option creates its own host of issues:
- Gank fleet cruises enemy waters, finds lone ship, enters battle, sinks target ship, uses "teleport to port" to escape risk free with their PVP marks.
- A player trader attacks an AI trade ship, ignores it during battle, then uses "teleport to port" to get a risk free transport of their cargo back home.
- Two Pirates are far from home and decide they're tired of sailing the OW. One attacks the other, they ignore each other till timer runs out, then get free "teleport to port" to sail home risk free.
I'm not a super clever exploiter by any means, but those are three examples of abuses of a "teleport to port" mechanic in the post-battle screen.
I want to be clear: I am not against finding a constructive counterplay solutions to the revenge fleet issue - and especially, the revenge fleet doing multiple re-tags - it's just that we need to come up with a solution that doesn't cause as many if not more problems than it solves. Emphatically, I believe the solution to revenge fleets needs to be something that uses player skill, not a "get out of jail free" card.
Well, there is several suggestions hidden away in this topic that doesn't have those issues.
Mine is TP to nearest free port but only if you were the "defender" in the battle. -
Just now, Peter Goldman said:
I know someone with time 7:58, what's yours?
08:20
But i know how to get it down to 7 minutes, unfortunately i haven't been able to login and do it... :'(-
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6 minutes ago, Otto Kohl said:
Im sure its SORRY fault.
Are you doing this to sabotage my chances at getting a Santa Cecilia Otto?
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1 minute ago, Cortez said:
Go figure what is wrong here.
One thing that is wrong here is the fact that you fail to read and understand the issues that comes with Battles being open for longer than 2 minutes + the issues that comes with "battle camping".
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Just now, Cortez said:
No?
What is the problem then with "revenge" fleet?
Read the comments made in the topic, even just the comments on page 5.
If you can't be bothered reading please don't flood the topic with shitposts that doesn't contribute to the discussion.
Cheers.-
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2 minutes ago, Cortez said:
It is obsolete because it can not be improved.
Play in Arena when it comes out to have a "fair" fight.
Will boost your Ego as well.
Read the posts and realise noone here is asking for "fair fights".
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1 minute ago, Rick Astley said:
Well a simple solution would be when a ship surrenders or is sunk/captured the captain of said ship is removed from battle so cannot relay when you leave the battle.
This way you are given a private window of the 15 minutes to leave when you require so they would not know when you leave or how far with the invisibility.
There is a really high chance they will stay for those 15 minutes because they KNOW that you have to leave within 15 minutes.
Invisibility only helps if it is high enough, the revenge fleet tends to be 10-20 ships (Yup, sucks ass...), they will make a circle so big that your invisibility will run out before you "escape" the circle.
Furthermore longer invisibility will be abused as we've seen in previous testing (and as some people have experienced already since it was reintroduced).-
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Just now, Rick Astley said:
Do you have screenshots in the battle where players joined? was it just 1 clan though or ships that sailed close?
I tagged a guy that was sailing past New Edinburgh towards Cartagena, he called for help... but even ships hunting and about to do missions tried to join but by the time they sailed to the area the Battle was closed.. They could not join.
You are now referring to the "Battle Join Timer" which has been reduced to 3 minutes (Close to "What you see is what you get", close). Effectively this means that people that are more than 3 minutes away can't join the battle. (This is good. I prefer 2 min timers or Insta Close battles where everything in sight is pulled into battle since it means someone outside of view range cant' join.)
- Organized gank fleets can abuse the fact that they can hide ships outside view range, it might not be happening right now but it will happen in the future as previous testing have shown.
What we are actually discussing in this topic is the fact that "Revenge Fleets" (People that are say, 10-60 minutes away from where you battle is taking place, can travel to the location of the battle at the speed of light. Then they can make a "net" to catch you. When you jump out you have a ton of people waiting there.
Admin claims these fleets are "Home Defense Fleets", yet most of the time i'm "Revenge Ganked" the people revenge ganking me are nowhere near their capital, home waters or even their own ports.
It doesn't make any sense.
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1 minute ago, Prater said:
My quote is for 20 knots. I have ships that reach 28 knots now. I could make a new one for 30 knots.
+ The OW Speed itself has been increased by something like 30% now compared to back then.
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Just now, Rick Astley said:
As I have stated in red to reply, hope that answers your question, from my clan personally and others we work closely with we always escort Traders as a clan, we never sail them alone. I find it hard to believe that it is a clan waiting for you after you ganking there ship as I rarely see it unless there clan is sailing close by.
Welp, maybe its because i'm a big time gangster or something?
I've had only a small amount of PvP battles since the wipe but 7 of the what, 11 times i had a PvP fight, i was revenge ganked or someone tried to revenge gank me. (And no, i wasn't near their waters or their capital most of the times.)
Last time Revenge Fleets were a thing it also happened alot. And well, as soon as people figure out how to do them properly (Most "Revenge Fleets" are making a ton of mistakes atm when it comes to "how to revenge fleet"), you will not be able to escape...
We tested it before, it wasn't good gameplay. TP from Battle Result Screen was introduced for a reason. I'm not sure why Devs think it will change now.-
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Oh, and just for the heck of it here is something my lover @Prater made once upon a time when we discussed this kinda stuff.
On 7/14/2015 at 6:57 AM, Prater said:The join timer is currently at 10 minutes. The speed we see our ships going on open world is not knots. It is roughly km/minute. This means that if I am going 10 knots on open world, I can travel 100km. If I am traveling 15 knots, I can go 150 km in 10 minutes. If I am going 20 knots, I can go 200km. The average speed fit frigate goes 20+ knots at its best point of sail.
Let's assume that I am in a frigate that goes 20 knots. Starting at Plymouth, Montserrat, I have enough time to get to any battle in this blue circle if the wind is with me.
Here is the distance in 5 minutes
Here is the distance in 2 minutes
Here is the 30 seconds that Kaos and Mr Doran are proposing
I tested this theory out.
My coni is speed fit. It reaches between 22-24 knots at the best point of sail. I left Plymouth and this is how far I traveled in 10 minutes. I went a little more than 200km.
Now in fact, OW Speed have been made even higher since Prater made this nice post, so its not entirely accurate (You'd actually travel even further now than what is shown in the quote).
I hope this might make it easier to understand why we think revenge fleets and longer join timers is a problem.-
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4 minutes ago, Rick Astley said:
Trolling for having an opinion that is not the same as yours.... *Slow Clap* well done.... what a muppet you are if you think everyone who disagrees with you is a troll!..
Thats actually not the reason but okay
Your not actually reading the comments i've made, you claim our playstyle is ganking and wanting an easy game, yet you have no idea what our playstyle is.
This is the reason why i call you a troll.
PS. Yes, i'm a big time gangster.
I'll try again though;7 minutes ago, Rick Astley said:Thanks for a sensible response I shall return the favor o7
Q - "you do understand this is only being discussed because of the fact we've got two dimensions, battle and OW instance, and therefore anyone can use the hyper speed of OW as an advantage to camp on an exact battle position"
A - Well yes, but you also traveled at the same speed to reach your pray so if it's good enough for you why not for other players?
Q - would have taken ages getting there, if we didnt have the luxury of ow speed boost and
A - Yes but as I have advised, you and other people complaining here have also made us of the 75 times faster in OW in order to get to your hunting ground.
Everyone in OW is traveling at the same time compression. On OW we are all equal.
The Hunter and the Victim are equal.
The problem occurs once someone is in Battle where time compression isn't the same as on the OW. With the "What you see is what you get" RoE that we also advocate for noone can abuse the fact that the OW Time Compression is 75 times faster than the time compression in battles.-
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Just now, Rick Astley said:
You also have the benefit of sailing at 75 times normal speed to gank your pray..... expect the x75 times speed to be returned to you.
Actually we don't mate. What we are asking for is that battles close after 2 minutes (What you see is what you get RoE).
This means everyone is equal on the OW, my "pray" will be sailing at exactly the same time compression as i would.
If someone ganks me on the OW, i'm not complaining. It means i made a mistake.Basically after reading your suggestions all I seem to make out of it is this
" @admin I want to be able to attack defenseless traders alone steal there cargo and sink his ship for PVP marks as I so good of a captain I want to be able to get my pray and then get away without any repercussion, I want to be able to sail at 75 times normal time in Open world to catch my pray.... but I don;t want the other side to be able to do it. I want to be able to attack my defenseless pray without being interrupted as I'm really a bad player... True PVPers can do it and do it well but I'm slow and to be honest rubbish at this game so want you to make it easier for me."
Yes yes, that is exactly what i'm saying. Thanks for actually reading stuff.There summed your pathetic whine up perfectly. If I can do it and many others like @The Red Duke for instance in his Privateer... why cannot you guys?? Why must this entire game revolve around you easy mode!!
Rarely if ever will someone bother making a "Revenge fleet" for a Privateer. The Red Duke is also playing on Global now where the population is quite low meaning that there is less people to actually make "Revenge Fleets".All in all, atleast you live up to your name. You surely must be trolling or just incredibly bad at reading and understanding.
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Just now, Rick Astley said:
Excuse me, but it is your ideas of invisible timers and porting out of battle to safety that is non "Realistic"
Trying to turn your "Realism" BS onto me when you cry babies have been bleating on about it like sheep over the course of 3 pages.... give me a break...
Invisible timers and porting out of battle is just as realistic as someone on the OW going 75 times faster than someone in a battle.
I never claimed Invisibility and Teleports were realistic (If you think i did, please feel free to read all my comments untill you can quote me saying that). However don't come here trying to say that battles being open for a full 90 minutes is realistic. It cannot in any way be realistic when the guys on the OW are sailing at 75 times the speed of the ones in battle.
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Just now, Darayavahus said:
We wan't realistic OW speed!
Now that is totally understandable.
But we have to work with what we got right? What we have now is instanced battles and the disrepancy means that you can call your friends who are sitting in the Capital. Then they travel 1000 miles in 20 minutes, spread out around the battle your in and gank whoever it is your fighting when he pops out.
That ain't realistic and its a really shitty game mechanic in my opinion.-
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26 minutes ago, Rick Astley said:
Sure let's forget realism in favor of the gankers. If an enemy ship/fleet are stupid enough to sail close to a port then expect the navy to be waiting outside.
People wanting special perks for ganking trying to claim "realism" about revenge fleets?? ok... allow the fleets to enter the battle with no timer like realism!!! You think realistically the Navies will sit back while important supplies are being attacked? You think the fleets in port will sit back drinking cocktails watching there countries ships being engaged?
Plis, plis dont mention realism when you can't comprehend the fact that the ships on the OW travels like 75 times faster than the ships in battle.
Realistic my ass.-
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Plis game, i need to improve my time in the Cutter vs LGV challenge
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13 minutes ago, admin said:
guys
What is this - Sex in the City?
We don't have time to see everything, and have work to do.
The problems described here are known and there is no point to go around them over and over and over and over again.
If you mention me @Liquicity it gives you nothing as we don't see notifications, we just have thousands per week.
That's why we insist that players only stay on topic, provide constructive feedback in structured form and bash the shitposters as they just help your great ideas and messages to get lost in the noise.
That is ofcourse fair.
However when you time and time again "ignore" certain topics and comments while answering other posters in those very same topics we get the impression that you are "ignoring" what we find to be a big issue.
I know you don't agree with our position on this matter but we spend many hours testing and coming with feedback, it would be nice if that feedback would be acknowledged at the very least. Perhaps if you took part in our discussion, looked at the proposals etc we could find a good compromise where we could get rid of the continuous tagging and keep everyone (RvR, OW PvP'ers, Traders and Crafters) happy.
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Just now, elite92 said:
well i ve made my suggestion in another separate topic from all other suggestion to have a feed back from Admin that is ignoring me since days... and u guys(i love you) come here and make all ur nice suggestions written in a better english with better images and all , and sudddenly u start a war between A and B and no1 take care of me...
the worst thing? developer join the A vs B and doeasnt calculate the poor Elite... :'(
Yeah i understand man.
As to Admin ignoring you, don't worry. He is ignoring a bunch of longtime testers because we are negative about certain changes to the game.
He forgets that we are also loyal testers who have praised Game-Labs work and the things they have accomplished on several occasions. He forget that we spend many many many hours testing his game, coming up with constructive feedback etc.-
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2 minutes ago, elite92 said:
press ESC, then prese leave to port or leave battle to exit ow, seems easy enough to code and it doesnt need battles screen.
but i still prefer Leave to nearest deep water port instead of friendly port, in this way cannot be exploited by traders or ppl that want to hide... pls think on it guys... this is my topic about my proposal to solve revenge fleet gank, i dont want to read 45, 46 or 47 seconds of invisibility, i want a solution to this not this BS
Sorry if you feel like i am hijacking your topic mate.
I'm all for trying your proposal too, i just thought it would be good if we gathered the suggestions we have-
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7 minutes ago, admin said:
any tag becomes too powerful
that's why it is so painful to unsee the BRS
You could escape any battle before. You cannot escape a smart opponent now if you are in his home waters.- attack npc - tp to home port or sit in battle screen
- attack a pirate - tp to home port or sit in battle screen
- join a battle or a mission - tp to home port or sit in battle screen
Now if you see the enemy and if you have numbers you know if he does make mistakes = he will sink today.
Why should we deny this gameplay to another side? They have fun sinking people who venture into their homes to kill them
Did you read the proposal i posted in this topic? If not please do, the problems you refer to aren't present in that proposal..
1 minute ago, admin said:but don't they eventually get a nice and large revenge fleet vs revenge fleet battle?
I think i've seen that happen 1 time out of 20?
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So admin, you don't see any problem in the fact that "Home Defense Fleets" don't have to do anything except sit outside a battle and wait for their victim to emerge?
I don't have a problem with being ganked in the OW, if i get ganked it means i made a mistake.
I have a problem with the fact that the so called "Home Defense Fleets" get ganks served on a silver platter. And those "Home Defense Fleets" aren't even defending their home waters...
Another issue here is the repeated re-tagging that can happen. Even if your faster revenge fleets can keep tagging you for as long as they want. (They will spread out in a circle and wait for you).
Is this not a problem?-
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Just now, Bearwall said:
I could second much of it.. Except the tp to port part.. There I'd much prefer Liquis idea of 1.5* boost in invisibility timer..
The reason why i'm not a fan of invisibility actually isn't because i don't like it.
Its because of the people abusing it, we've tested invisibility extensively and every time there has been tons of complaints about abuse of the mechanic.
I'm a fan of TP to port because it means no one can grief you extensively. And it makes NA more accessible to the people who doesn't always have 3-4 hours to play (They can go, have a fight, escape revenge fleet and log off).-
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Few suggestions while servers are down
in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions
Posted
I understand why you want battles to be open for longer.
But, i think you don't see the issue with battles being open for longer time.
I'm not going to go into details with all the issues but to name a few:
1. Organized gank groups.
Organized gank groups can use longer join timers to their advantage. They will have 1 or 2 ships sailing ahead as bait while the rest of their fleet is outside of view range. Then when someone tags the bait ship(s) the rest of the fleet will soon join and gank you.
(This is why "what you see is what you get" Rules of Engagement is good - Eg 2 minute join timers - Only people in visual range will be able to join).
2. If you "sail together" you actually have to sail together.
Lots of the complaints about short join timers are from people saying something like;
"I was sailing with my friend and he got tagged by 2 pirates, i couldn't join because short join timer".
- Well, if you were actually sailing with your friend you would be within visual range right?