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TommyShelby

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Posts posted by TommyShelby

    Battle Screen Camping Solutions (Compilation)

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    Hey all. 

    First of all, please don't start discussions in this topic. I'm just gathering the different suggestions on how to "fix" the battle screen camping issue. (Aka, revenge fleets). 

    I'm doing this solely to try and make it easy for the developers to see the many different suggestions we have made.
    It's the last thing i can do to try and change a mechanic which is ultimately making sure big parts of the Small Group and Solo OW PvP'ers will disappear from the OW. 

    I believe there should be room for us all, including actual revenge fleets. 
    The problem as i see it stems from the 2 things; 
    1. Disrepancy in Time Compression between OW and Battle Instances.
    2. Battle Camping. 

    As it has been expressed countless times, we (Me and i think, everyone else complaining about this issue) don't mind revenge fleets per say, its fine that people want revenge. What we do mind is when Revenge Fleets can camp the battles making sure to get instant revenge by using the disrepancy in time compression to their advantage. 
    It is not good gameplay, it does not require anything from the "Revenge Fleets" except they have to sail to a spot, spread out in a circle, wait for the targets. 
    If the revenge fleets had to find you on the OW and somehow catch you, that requires them to work for the revenge. This instant gratification has to end... 

    Yes, i could sail with 20 other people but i do not enjoy that type of gameplay. Never did and never will, and i'm not alone on this. 

    There is lots of suggestions on how to "fix" the issue so i'm just going to post the topics at first. Maybe i'll find some suggestions spread out in comments on different topics and add those. 
    However, if you don't see your suggestion here in this topic, feel free to post it here.

    If you don't think Battle Camping is an issue please just stay out of this specific topic. I'd prefer this thread to only contain suggestions on how to "fix" the Battle Camping. 

    Thank you. :)

    • Like 15

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted · Edited by TommyShelby

    29 minutes ago, Vllad said:

    You aren't forced into bigger clans. Learn to work with other clans in your nation. Actually be part of the nation! That 8 on 13 fight I explained above was with 3 different clans in the same nation. Purge, Bork and WO. This is very simple for everyone.

    That is a shame you have decided not to play but lets get down to the crux of what revenge fleets generally represent. Revenge fleets are multi player tactics. Basically you are saying that you don't want any group bigger than your group to force you to fight unless it meets certain very specific requirements. You are basically saying to all players in NA that while yes this is a mutli-player game you don't want multi player components to actually BE in the game.

    You are basically saying that if you sail to my nations home waters and kill a trader that it is a bad thing for my nation to use 10 guys to squash you. I say not only is it a good thing but it is healthy for the game. You want to encourage cooperative play in a multi player game not try to convince developers to remove cooperative play. Otherwise just remove the whole nation/clan/team concepts. 

    Battle Camping revenge fleets are lazy players wanting easy ganks. Nothing more. 

    I don't enjoy playing the game with 10 or 24 other people at the same time. I mean, there is a reason why i'm in a small clan... :)

    That is not what i'm saying... I'm saying that Battle Screen camping Revenge Fleets is bad for the game. 
    If you can get me without sitting outside my battle you wont hear a peep from me..

     

    • Like 2

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    27 minutes ago, Vllad said:

     Asking developers to dumb down the game in the absence of any thought of how players can deal with these things directly is worse not better for NA.   

    Asking developers to keep Revenge Fleets (Well, battle camping revenge fleets) is exactly that, dumbing down the game. 

    Hunting in OW actually requires you to be aware of your surroundings (Enemy ships, Wind, Land Masses), it requires you to think. 

    Sitting outside a battle with 10-20 ships doesn't even require a brain. 

    • Like 3

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    I'm glad your clan of 15 can deAl with it lol.

    My clan of 10, usually 2-5 online, can't.  

    So again. We are forced to grow our clan, join a bigger clan, sail privateers and lynx' or look for pvp in places where there is no players... :)

    But it's fine. I just won't play untill something is done about revenge fleets. Clearly the small group/solo player isn't welcome here anymore even though we've been around longer than most people :)

    • Like 5

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Hodo said:

    I dont think you can read.

    ELITE92 said....

    "no, thx , i will wait arena"

    I don't think you get it. 

    If Elite just wanted an Arena game i'm sure he wouldn't be spending his time talking about the OW game.. 
    There is a reason why Elite says that he will wait for Arena. 

    And yes, it will not change unless @admin does something. But Admin told us to speak up if we think its bad for the game. So here we are, speaking up.

    • Like 2

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    Just now, Hodo said:

    Then sail in a ship that is faster.  You want to be a "privateer" but refuse to use the tool that was used by them.  Odd but whatever.   

    I know of another guy who does quite well in a Renomee hunting, and I know I have seen a Snow that was faster upwind than most 5th rates.   So again... your tactics are bad it isnt the games fault.  

    And perhaps Arena games are more your style anyway.  Not everyone likes dealing with the chance of fighting outnumbered or having to use actual naval strategy and tactics to prevail and they just want to mindlessly slam balls into each other.  

    Lol. It doesn't help that your in a 15knt Reno, Surp, or Snow. (Tried and tested). 

    The enemy will bring 5+ 15knt Surps, atleast 1 or 2 15knt Reno's. Its idiot proof, you cannot escape this unless your in a Fore-Aft Vessel (And even then you might not be able to get away if they have any clue on how to Revenge fleet properly. 

    You know, i'm starting to get really tired of this whole Arena game thing. Elite, like myself and a lot of others, prefer to fight outnumbered. We love the OW gameplay, why else would we have several thousand hours in Naval Action?... 
     

    • Like 5

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    2 hours ago, TommyShelby said:

    Yes, because the OW PvP'ers (Small group and Solo) are forced to do one of the following things:
    1. Sail tiny Fore-Aft vessels. 
    2. Look for PvP in places where you'll be lucky to find a player during a 5 hours session. 
    3. Join a big clan. 

    The above options are ridicoulus. Your forcing us out of the game with this attitude of yours. (You don't see small group and solo players try to force Big group and RvR focused players out of the game do you?) 

     

    • Like 3

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Vllad said:

    Revenge fleets have existed as long as I have been playing this game a year ago February. They will always exist as long as we have instance combat. They are actually a good thing for RvR and PVP as long as you adapt and use them appropriately.

    Okay lets get 2 things straight here. 

    1. When we say "revenge fleets" we are referring to the fleets that camp outside ongoing battles waiting for easy ganks. 
    2. No, it is not good for PvP.

    Now i have a question. What do you mean when you say "adapt and use them appropriately". (I will not agree but i'm curious as to why you think so)

    • Like 2

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted · Edited by TommyShelby

    18 minutes ago, Vllad said:

    Yes, I do see the issue here.

    Instant combat makes it harder to solo in NA than other games. However instants are NEVER going away and no amount of developer solutions are going to defeat voice com's to set up revenge fleets. Instead of asking for the developers to adjust I am suggesting that players just take care of the problems themselves.

    NA provides everything you need to defeat revenge fleets. Why not use them?

    Devs surely have the tool to fix the issue of revenge fleets. Otherwise how come we did not have revenge fleet for over a year?...

    It was an issue once before and it was fixed once before lol

    • Like 1

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    Just now, Vllad said:

    Actually I just asked you the same question. I am not calling for the removal of solo player mechanics. The people who are alienating other players are those solo players out there who want mechanics built just so they can solo. Anyone who complains about revenge fleets are the ones saying their isn't room enough for both types.

    Their is room for both but just like every game made before NA if you chose to solo in a multi player game then accept the consequences if you get caught solo by large groups.

    There is a difference between being caught by large groups and being served on a silver platter to the large groups. 

    I don't know if you've actually read through the topic but every single one of the people arguing against revenge fleets also state that they are completely fine with the fact that they may be caught by a larger group in the OW. 

    We have to work for our kills, we have to scour the OW looking for targets. Whether we gank or only do "fair fights" we have to work for it. 
    Revenge fleets just use the disrepancy in time compression between Battle Instances and OW to sail at hyper speed to a battle location and wait for their target to come out of the battle so they can gank him. 
    This doesn't leave much room for solo players and small groups. 

    Do you not see the issue here? 

    Again, we understand that going into enemy territory may end up with us being outnumbered and "ganked". That is fair and makes sense. However revenge fleets camping outside battles doesn't make any friggin sense and does not in any way help gameplay. 

    • Like 2

    Time to hit the Reset Button

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Bach said:

    Refusing to change tactics so you can deal with revenge fleets and choosing not to PvP until the Devs give you a way to not have to plan strategies makes it a PVE game.

    Yes, because the OW PvP'ers (Small group and Solo) are forced to do one of the following things:
    1. Sail tiny Fore-Aft vessels. 
    2. Look for PvP in places where you'll be lucky to find a player during a 5 hours session. 
    3. Join a big clan. 

    The above options are ridicoulus. Your forcing us out of the game with this attitude of yours. (You don't see small group and solo players try to force Big group and RvR focused players out of the game do you?) 

    • Like 8

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, Vllad said:

    This is the core problem right here to everyone who complains about revenge fleets. It isn't the system that is broken it is the players that are broken.

    This isn't 1v1 game so stop trying to make it one. Feel free to try and solo in it, some people are actually good at it however NA is an MMO (as in multi player) nation vs nation game. I bring my 20 guys you bring your 30 guys and we fight it out. Open water, PB's whatever.

    You guys are bringing rocks to a gunfight and are complaining you are getting whipped. Stop showing up with rocks!

    Revenge fleets don't need to be fixed. There is a simple solution for them. Bring more players! I am completely baffled by the audience playing NA, I can only assume they have never played any RvR MMO's like Shattered Galaxy, DAOC, Warhammer or Shadowbane.  

    Hmmm this is actually not the problem. Finding good pvp fights solo or in small groups is not the problem. 

    The problem is what happens after.

    Now as an avid OW PvPer (who doesn't participate in RvR because I'm not interested in it) I don't come here saying that the RvR players need to change their playstyle. However that is exactly what you are doing.

    We always focused on OW PvP and 90% of the time that hasn't been a problem. However because of ppl like yourself there is hardly room for us in NA anymore. And personally I find that pretty ironic considering that the OW PvPers  (small group and solo) have been around much longer than a big part of the RvR focused players.

    I ask you this however, why is there not room for both kinds of players? To me it sounds like your saying this game is a pure RvR game and that my type of player isn't welcome anymore... 

    • Like 3

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    Ole there is a huge difference between the way a flight sim works and the way NA works. 

    In a flight sim there is no instanced battles, everyone is always moving at the same "time compression".

    In NA we have instanced battles and OW time compression is 75x higher than in battles.

    This is what creates the revenge fleet issue because in battle you travel 1 mile in 1 minute bit on the OW you travel 75 miles in 1 minutes.. 

    (Numbers are arbitrary).

    Furthermore we have TS, national chat etc which we can use to call for help.

    Its a very bad cocktail for PvP... I had 2 fights near la mona (Freetown in "danish waterd"), 10-15 swedes tried to revenge gank me both times. So it happens far away from capitals too :)

     

     

    • Like 2

    Limited Battle Timer is Anti-PvP

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Tenet said:

    You missed our example where we were literally on top of each other in game terms.

    We were not a "revenge fleet" we were not "warped in upon a spaceship" WE WERE RIGHT THERE.

    That battle lasted over 30 minutes - we could not join near or far or anywhere. 

    YOU are the one defending MAGIC BLOCKING OF PVP.

    We MAGICALLY cannot assist a ship dragged into a battle almost on top of the battle we left.

    You are the one trying to lawyer yourself out of fights with imaginary conditions.

     

    If you were literally on top of each other how did you manage to not all get into the same battle? 

    • Like 4

    Basic cutter vs AI LGV competition

    in News Announcements & Important discussions

    Posted

    31 minutes ago, rediii said:

    I thought you sank him with leaks. :D Didn't even try the raking+boarding since i thought it takes too long.

    Can you tell your basic cutter outfit? Pretty fast beast. :D 

    good job :) 

    I actually went with raking +boarding because the limit on how fast you can do it isn't hardcapped so to speak.

    By dps there is a limit which you can only exceed by buffing your dps with mods and skillbooks.

    The cutter is ofcourse purpose built and fitted, onice I get home from work I'll post a screenshot of it :D

    • Like 3

    Trying to solve revenge fleet problem

    in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions

    Posted

    On 6/17/2017 at 3:28 PM, elite92 said:

    hey guys i quote myself from another topic to make this read by every1:

    i was thinking: and if instead of teleport to friendly port after u escape a battle we test a exit to port? so if u escape a battle u can decide to exit to ow as it is now or to exit to the nearest deep water port, in this way the revenge fleet will not be so sure to find u near the swords. i think its worth a test.

    if u gank near the capital maybe u are dead anyway if u escape to port but its ok :) think about it:

    u tag a trader of [HELLOKITTY] clan, u capture it and while u are in battle he obviusly ask for help by his clanmates, so 10 players magically teleport to outpost and exit to camp ur battle instance and cover all the directions u would take; at the battle over u decide to exit to nearest port and the revenge fleet is useless BUT u are still likely in the enemy territory and still a potential target for every1.

    seems good in my mind but maybe im a tard idiot...

    edit: add invisibility of 60 seconds in both way, if u choose to exit to OW and also if u choose to exit in front of the nearest deep water port so u give a chance to the poor solo player but if the revenge fleet is smart he is dead anyway but if he smarter can continue his journey towards an ally port and maybe exit to a friendly when he is closer

    Thought i'd "repost" elite's original proposal so that people who joins the discussion actually sees it.

    • Like 3
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