Stability ( no to hostility ! )

[Hethwill]

Establish Stability.

Transfer responsability to Defender while keeping the offensive nature innate to being the Attacker.

A Region starts with 100% Stability.

This must be maintained by the players ( clans can adopt a region under their responsability using their meta gaming  ) via the normal mechanics of the game except being AFK or simply sailing about doing nothing.

Stability drops, at a rate if the Region has no activity at all.

Trade help keeping stability and raise it if it drops. Meaning keeping the stocks in check. Influx of currency to the region by buying and producing goods - creates richness in the region - and influx of goods in demand which port consumes - creates welfare.

So, the civilian part is covered, 50% of Stability due to trade and coin flowing through the region.

Military presence being the other half of stability. Populations knowing they are safe and protected. This means the region being used by the players as a Naval Base for their missions, their pvp, intercepting smugglers, etc.

So how to destabilize a region ?

Easy. Financial and military.

Financial destabilization mainly by smuggling. This means that Consuming demands being met by smugglers changes the hearts and minds of the population towards the faction that is bringing the goods they need as opposite to being "fed by their own mother country".

The same way if smugglers guarantee influx of cash by buying produced goods they will work towards the same goal. Population is happy whatever the origin of the coin, hence they might see the Aggressor as the good guys.

Military. This is where the mere presence of an enemy nation squadron can unbalance things. As long as an agressor ship/squadron/fleet is within the "reinforcement area" of the region capital the Stability takes a hit. It stops when the enemy is intercepted and brought into battle.

All the rest of normal combat activities also participate towards destabilization of the region, missions, pvp, trade interception, etc.

Note: All enemy factions, including the "enemies of the world", the pirates, work as a whole. They are not split. Stability is a ONE factor and not split into several different "stabilities"

 

STABILITY DROPS... now what ?

This is the tricky part where I need help to link up with the combat scenes.

As I see it there should be no indication of stability unless it hits below 50%, where the majority of the region no longer supports the faction rule. It is of the Ruler faction interest to keep the region stable and full of activity.

Once any region stability hits 49% all the nations should be aware of that, maybe listing them in the new conquest info boxes.

This is the calm before the storm and once Stability hits as low as 33%, meaning only one third of the population supports the rulers the possibility of conquest by Port Battle is open.

Oh.... but who can initiate a PB ? Well... pretty much any faction with WAR status. ( Yes pirates vote for enemy/war status IIRC ).

[Eishen]

Sound good...some questions: about your proposed model

   - war supplies? limited up to a %? or from a %?

   -  how would be the battle initiated? ,  how much in advance?  no  window? 

[Hethwill]

War supplies are simply done away with or transformed into trade goods available after the 49% mark, to emulate rebellious forces buying weaponry from smugglers.

BUT I am sure they can be used on their own tied with clan-oriented War Fleets suggestions types.

Battle initiated can be as it is now, with advance warning. The importante thing is that - the region has fallen into decay and "abandoned by the mother country" and has absolutely no security or stability so pretty much open to conquest by anyone.

[Vaan De Vries]

Like concept of hostility/stability tied to a presence of enemy squadrons in your waters. 

For example after a couple weeks of sinking French near Santa-Lucia at the end of previous week we have to move to Hat island, because Santa-Lucia area virtually emptied of any Frenchies. There were only Dutch and British squadrons with rare group of Swedes. But no Frenchies. I was able to stay near Fort Royal with 500 people online and nobody challenged me. That's how hostility should work. With enemy traders being afraid to sail in their own regions and with enemy players being afraid to do missions or basically sailing in this area.

Now we doing the same to Danish and Swedes near Hat island..))

[Hethwill]

Yes Vaan, but notice that there is specific area marked for that, in my suggestion - be in the region capital "reinforcement" area which is very visible and open to proper defense by stationed players.

Basically it emulates a scenario where a enemy squadron ( or a pirate fleet ) stands in front of the town like giving out the message - your King cannot protect you.

[Eishen]

6 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Battle initiated can be as it is now, with advance warning. The importante thing is that - the region has fallen into decay and "abandoned by the mother country" and has absolutely no security or stability so pretty much open to conquest by anyone.

like the full of it , specially the fact of all efforts (enemies + pirate) being added  -even adds some salt to pirates- , but the method to start/plan the battle itself worries me as it takes out entirely from the defender any ability to determine attack windows.... c  IMHO defense are too strong in current system but this is the only defensive ability I am not sure should be removed

[Hethwill]

War supplies could be used for setting up attack fleet strengths and port defences tied to BR order of battle, at least they would have a second use

Not sure what you mean with the attack Windows.

It hits the lowest stability it should Schedule PB as now, or should it be only 24 hours advance ?

 

[Eishen]

11 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Not sure what you mean with the attack Windows.

Maybe I did not fully understood you.... 

when you said....

32 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

once Stability hits as low as 33%, meaning only one third of the population supports the rulers the possibility of conquest by Port Battle is open

Does this means....

    - In that exact moment : 46 hours later an 1 hour window  ANY enemy/pirate can enter port battle (this would be as current with few time to react -so fight to change window - for the defender (from 50% visible to 33% PB settled)

OR:  

  - from that moment  (until stab increased over 33%) any enemy can announce (flag like?) that a battle will start

  - from that moment  (until stab increased over 33%) any enemy can announce (flag like?) that a battle would start in X time?

 

[Hethwill]

6 minutes ago, rediii said:

And for which nation is the portbattle scheduled when "stability" is the same for everyone?

The nations with WAR status versus the nation that holds the region. If two nations are allies of course they can join together.

If two nations are not allies but have WAR status, the first ones to initiate the PB ... well... are the ones getting the PB.

Stability is per region, if you didn't interpret it correctly.

[Hethwill]

Eishen,

Hitting 33% means there is a window open yes.

Also means it can be countered by the owner nation and restore order - up to 50% threshold.

Hitting 0% though is fatal and PB goes through.

I am still unsure of the formula to sum up all the activities but a basic idea is to give PvP the biggest share, along with Epic Events.

Trade and Smuggling a median value. Normal missioning a token value.

Pretension number one: focus players activities where it matters / where it hurts

Wargame.

[Sir Max Magic]

Not a bad idea mate ! +1

Dont see any loopholes atm or any flawed mechanic...could be the clue for solving the enormous issues we face curently

[Hethwill]

Redii, By that order, Danes. But can also be by most ships present, which in that case would be Sweden.

[Archaos]

I like the idea in general but it would need to be fleshed out properly and solutions found for loopholes. For example what happens at server quiet times when there are only few people online? Will it be too easy to generate hostility then?

[Eishen]

6 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Eishen,

Hitting 33% means there is a window open yes.

Also means it can be countered.

Hitting 0% though is fatal and PB goes through.

 

Pretension number one: focus players activities where it matters / where it hurts

Wargame.

so to have it cleared ....... a battle is planned to occur 46 hours later but it can be cancelled by the defender if stability grows.... only being set in stone if it reaches 0%.

right? (I really Like it but I maybe understanding only what I want ) 

[Hethwill]

Yes. That's correct.

0% means riots and "civil war" in the region.

 

Archaos, a stability measurement can be discussed for sure. Cannot be a sudden thing, but also not too prolonged.

 

Redii, I edited the post. Can be by number of ships ? You have another idea ?

 

 

[Hethwill]

Ah thanks for clarifying it. Well, in the case of a tie of numbers the first entrance takes precedence.

I like two things you point out - the use of "points" to be able to enter a PB on your last topic, and the increased loot as a proto-raid reward.

[Eishen]

20 minutes ago, rediii said:

- defenders cant enter the port anymore where a portbattle will happen. like this the defender can be screened too.

This point seems  overkill... currently there exists a problem due to the defender being able to respawn multiple times in the port, making battle unreachable ("circunvented" with desconection) closing port  will double this problem,....port battles would be residual, as the side that wins the covering struggle would close the battle.

Maybe not allowing respawn in that port could do the trick more efficiently  

 

[Angus McGregor]

Hmmm - good ideas on several fronts. Not sure its necessary to use 'Stability' word instead of 'Hostility' - can be done by changing existing system. Hostility just needs to be internal - attitude of region's citizens toward Governor's office. Yes - it's semantics, but NA's cycle of abandoning systems for entirely new mechanics is getting to me. Regardless - comments below still valid, just substitute words.  

A few suggestions/reactions.

A) The "owner" of the PB would need to be easily deduced and known at time of PB countdown start, otherwise there's sure to be shenanigans resulting in much saltyiness. This is just competitive human nature but often not good for the community. (See hostility bomb threads) I suggest the Region's hostility (to Governor) be shown as sum but contributions from foreign powers tracked separately.

1. UI implications are an issue but hope we're getting a UI update soon anyway. At least a tweak. Very tired of squinting at tiny letters and colors that blend into background. Graphic 'color blind' mode does nothing?
2. Hostility/stability only affected by Allies and Warring nations.
3. Highest foreign contributor 'owns' the PB, and (see #2) *must* be at war with governing nation.

I definitely like the idea of a normal trade/smuggling being opposing effects - but give smuggling a slight edge. This is what I would use instead of the War Supplies mechanic.

C) Enemy blockade idea is great! Personally not familiar with green zone size (never paid attention). Is it big enough?

D) Need to cap the neglect factor... 50%?? Matters shouldn't erode all the way to triggering a PB because of a total absence of action. 

 

[Black Spawn]

That sounds promising. +1

regarding the first-come first-serve principle i am not too sure though.

two ideas:

1) Something like effords for warmongering have to be payed to get exclusive entrance to the the PB. Somewhat like an auction in the early 24 hrs after triggering the PB. Highest bidder wins the bid. -> defender could prepare in 2 stages | 46 hrs till the portbattle | 24 hrs after the enemy is known

2) Entrance is first-come | first serve but at ties the nation with the most "war" votes-ratio regarding the diplomacy wins

Edited November 30, 2016 by Black Spawn

[Hethwill]

Actually is not a far fetched idea Rediii and might add war attrition to whereas we have none.

[Angus McGregor]

29 minutes ago, rediii said:

this point is connected with the 120 seconds cant enter battle timer. With the possibility to get multiple waves out of the port the attacker would never be able to set up the flag if the defender can use the port.

maybe another mechanic could prevent this, that was the thing that came to my mind tho.

A blue-sky thought... in the last 30 minutes before PB start and until PB ends, no teleporting into the port allowed. After all, the invading armada will be blockading. Which sets up - defending/allied players sunk in that region during that same interval are spawned into their national capital.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Angus McGregor

[Angus McGregor]

Just now, rediii said:

if the rule is public, people will gather in the port 30 minutes before it begins. Group up in teamspeak in multiple waves and get a call when to exit to get a 100% screen chance of the flag/ enemy portbattlefleet. 

I guess I misunderstood. I thought the main concern was that defeated screeners can just respawn and sail out to screen again immediately.

You want to disable inbound teleporting for that port from when the PB countdown starts? That seems overly harsh and swinging the pendulum too far the other way. I put in the 30 minutes prior to PB start part to make the defenders commit themselves at least a little bit in advance. I was thinking of ppl who don't live in NA and only find out about the PB when they log in that day.