The Art of the Grapple (Boarding Improvements)

[Slim McSauce]

8 minutes ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

Who's complaining about that? That sounds like a load of horse crap. Determined defender needs reworking. Boarding as a whole needs reworking.

The actual process of initiating the grapple is fine. Were not going to get a more realistic grapple and i think its simulated ok and its not always instant and the battles are at a increased time anyway so i don't see the problamo. 

Look around yourself, I'm not gonna spoon feed you. DD is a meme fix, you say yourself boarding needs reworks, boarding is actually working O.K, everybody knows the rock paper scissors is pretty fair, although mod dependent and more depends on ping than skill.

Ramming upwind for an immediate shut down board is laughable, completely outrageous and silly. If you don't agree please feel free to express why, otherwise the general assumption is that it doesn't match up with realism and it doesn't do so in regards to better gameplay. It's the absolute worse of both options. Also I would check up on the definition of "simulate", just because you "feel" like the game can't be improved doesn't mean it actually can't.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Hethwill]

Full sails Depower anchoring close hauled is also ridiculous and laughable but "everyone" seems to enjoy it, given there's barely a feel of leeway to put the ship downwind again, so there's not even the need to ram and push to the eye of the wind.

[Capt Jubal Early]

Alright slim I get your passionate about it but calm your chops I just think your focusing on the wrong side of boarding and taking it way to personal. I disagree with you that's it.  

 

I have no suggestions to fix the "grapple" problem because I dont see one and like hethwill says above there's plenty of other non realistic things in this game that we don't shout about so realism can't be a argument for this. I honnestly beileve the current mechanic is functional and works as intended. Any major change to it would require a massive overhaul of the core boarding mechanics. For a start ship to ship musket fire. 

 

I have plenty of suggestions for DD and have suggested them prior in multiple threads and will continue to fight for them when I have the time. 

Jubsies opion in a nutshell. ♡

 

[Slim McSauce]

8 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Full sails Depower anchoring close hauled is also ridiculous and laughable but "everyone" seems to enjoy it, given there's barely a feel of leeway to put the ship downwind again, so there's not even the need to ram and push to the eye of the wind.

No it's not lol. That's called being lax for sake of gameplay. Being lax (as in simply not giving a f*** to do update boarding/grappling to their counterparts level) is plain stupid. You aren't benefiting from NOT fixing it. You're just being a luddite.

[Hethwill]

 I'm not.

The cake is full slices, not a couple only.

Think the entire system as a whole, that's why i place some other elements that play together.

[Slim McSauce]

25 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

 I'm not.

The cake is full slices, not a couple only.

Think the entire system as a whole, that's why i place some other elements that play together.

No you think because 1 thing isn't realistic or practical that that's an excuse for everything to not be realistic and practical. You're cherry picking things that aren't an active problem with the game or community and comparing it with something that is and has been talked about extensively.

Your solution is to change everything at once or nothing at all. You wan't the game to be realistic AND fun? There's compromise between those two, that's a given. 
How about we start with the most glaring problem with the combat which is boarding, and start from the beginning of that which is grappling. What doesn't match up with fun and realism? Well..

1. Grapples are instantly hooked with no way to combat whether it be axes, deck fire, muskets, you name it.

2. The time from grapple to pull to boarding screen is usually >3 seconds, that's all the time you get to counter a boarding by sailing away.

3. Getting boarded immobilizes you completely, leaving you to the mercy of the gank. Hence people complain that their battles are ending being rammed up wind and boarded, reboarded, then sunk. 

There's no compromise in the way boarding is done. It's not fun, and it's not realistic. There's no excuse to not make it either of those things.
Nothing needs to be changed with it, so what combat is sped up. Is it fun? Why do you think cannon reloads aren't sped up to match? Some things have struck a balance between fun/realism and they just work the way they are. Boarding/grappling on the other hand is a jack of none and needs improvement more substantial then a measly perk.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Hethwill]

Al'right. Suggestion is made, Devs surely take a look  

Thought a discussion was open to diverging points of view. Guess not. In your case.

We are not judging the suggestion, we are giving opening for the proposed system to work differently.

I like the idea of chances of failing the grappling, sure. So cut me some slack. Enjoy your monologues.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Hethwill said:

Al'right. Suggestion is made, Devs surely take a look  

Thought a discussion was open to diverging points of view. Guess not. In your case.

We are not judging the suggestion, we are giving opening for the proposed system to work differently.

I like the idea of chances of failing the grappling, sure. So cut me some slack. Enjoy your monologues.

It is you just don't make a very logical or sane argument. I can tell you multiple times why it is a problem, why x needs to be changed and y is fine, but it gets annoying when you come in refuting there that there's even is a problem in the first place. Obviously there is or else it wouldn't be discussed.

I don't hate you Hethwill. Even though you're a huge nutjob , you no doubt support improving the game. Your comparing of things within boarding to things like the sailing model as a counter argument (even if just as a counter argument) leaves little room for objective reasoning. I find my side of the argument very strong and will concede little to non-facts. Hope you understand o7

[Capt Jubal Early]

 

13 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

No you think because 1 thing isn't realistic or practical that that's an excuse for everything to not be realistic and practical. You're cherry picking things that aren't an active problem with the game or community and comparing it with something that is and has been talked about extensively.

Your solution is to change everything at once or nothing at all. You wan't the game to be realistic AND fun? There's compromise between those two, that's a given. 
How about we start with the most glaring problem with the combat which is boarding, and start from the beginning of that which is grappling. What doesn't match up with fun and realism? Well..

1. Grapples are instantly hooked with no way to combat whether it be axes, deck fire, muskets, you name it.

2. The time from grapple to pull to boarding screen is usually >3 seconds, that's all the time you get to counter a boarding by sailing away.

3. Getting boarded immobilizes you completely, leaving you to the mercy of the gank. Hence people complain that their battles are ending being rammed up wind and boarded, reboarded, then sunk. 

There's no compromise in the way boarding is done. It's not fun, and it's not realistic. There's no excuse to not make it either of those things.
Nothing needs to be changed with it, so what combat is sped up. Is it fun? Why do you think cannon reloads aren't sped up to match? Some things have struck a balance between fun/realism and they just work the way they are. Boarding/grappling on the other hand is a jack of none and needs improvement more substantial then a measly perk.

1: Theres a massive button called disengage.

2: if your going so slow as to be grappled you made a mistake. Avoiding the board happens way way before the grapple button arrives. 

3: getting boarded would render your ship immobile. You can't give orders, sheet yards, or drop canvas when engaged in melee. Getting rammed sucks I will agree. But we're not getting the ability to snipe helms man and disable rigging and other methods to get a ship into irons so i think it's ok to concede on this one. 

 

[Slim McSauce]

2 hours ago, Capt Jubal Early said:

 

1: Theres a massive button called disengage.

2: if your going so slow as to be grappled you made a mistake. Avoiding the board happens way way before the grapple button arrives. 

3: getting boarded would render your ship immobile. You can't give orders, sheet yards, or drop canvas when engaged in melee. Getting rammed sucks I will agree. But we're not getting the ability to snipe helms man and disable rigging and other methods to get a ship into irons so i think it's ok to concede on this one. 

 

1. You can't disengage until you're already boarded 2 turns in, by then you've already been caught either by the skilled boarder with a bunch of mods or his friends who now pump grape in your stern.

2. No, because ramming exists, there is no counter to ramming if the captain is half decent, he can match your moves and stay the same distance from you. It's extremely easy to get someone upwind in the first try.

3. Really it wouldn't, your sheets wouldn't raise themselves just because there's a metal hook and a rope on your ship. You would still have sails flying at it would be the burden of the attacker to wrestle you down.

This is how boarding should look and about how long it should take to throw/pull a grapple. What takes Total War a minute to rapple a ship takes NA >3. Similar speed of combat, huge disparity in time.

 

Edited May 20, 2018 by Slim McSauce