Are Briefings -Meant- To Be Useless?

[Fetzen]

This is a fun game, I really enjoy it. And I'm happy someone made it, since Creative Assembly seems to have given up on these kinds of scenarios. So please don't be offended by my question:

Does anyone else have the feeling that the briefings kind of f--ck with you? The strategic advice I am given most often turns out to be very, very bad. Even in the first mission as a Confederate I learned that the advice of 'delaying' the Union by sending skirmishers out helped not a bit, just got some hundred of my men demoralized and/or killed very fast. The better strategy was to dig myself in, defend the fort with teeth and nails.

Now I'm trying to defend a town the Union is attacking. In the briefing, I was advised to fight north of town to 'delay' the enemy. Again this turned out to be bullshit advice. I have only few troops, there was no way that I could plug all the possible entryways. So I couldnt prevent enemy skirmishers to sneak behind my lines and occupy the place, while my men where dying northwards, trying to defend it.

Is this an attempt to portray the kind of 'realism' that no plan survives the beginning of a battle? Is it an IQ-test for aspiring commanders? What's the deal here.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Fetzen

[The Soldier]

The advice usually works well for me.  The first mission especially, so long you don't send your Detached Skirmishers into melee with the other brigades, they can hold them off for a good while.  You can then either send them back to rejoin the base brigade or if you want, keep on on the flanks harassing the enemy.

[Aetius]

3 hours ago, Fetzen said:

Does anyone else have the feeling that the briefings kind of f--ck with you?

The general rule of thumb is to ignore the briefings entirely. The advice is often deadly, especially at higher difficulty levels. The one thing  you need to watch out for is when they say things like "you must take this objective!" - about half the time, if you don't take the objective, you will immediately lose the battle regardless of any other victory conditions.

I've been meaning to start a thread for my own use with the actual battle timers and objectives, but haven't gotten around to it. It's definitely needed, though, because the game is just awful sometimes at telling you what you need to know to win (or avoid losing unexpectedly).

Edited May 14, 2017 by Aetius

[Andre Bolkonsky]

3 hours ago, Fetzen said:

This is a fun game, I really enjoy it. And I'm happy someone made it, since Creative Assembly seems to have given up on these kinds of scenarios. So please don't be offended by my question:

Does anyone else have the feeling that the briefings kind of f--ck with you? The strategic advice I am given most often turns out to be very, very bad. Even in the first mission as a Confederate I learned that the advice of 'delaying' the Union by sending skirmishers out helped not a bit, just got some hundred of my men demoralized and/or killed very fast. The better strategy was to dig myself in, defend the fort with teeth and nails.

Now I'm trying to defend a town the Union is attacking. In the briefing, I was advised to fight north of town to 'delay' the enemy. Again this turned out to be bullshit advice. I have only few troops, there was no way that I could plug all the possible entryways. So I couldnt prevent enemy skirmishers to sneak behind my lines and occupy the place, while my men where dying northwards, trying to defend it.

Is this an attempt to portray the kind of 'realism' that no plan survives the beginning of a battle? Is it an IQ-test for aspiring commanders? What's the deal here.

I may be the very best person to answer this question because I asked it myself long ago. 

No. 

The narrative scripts are in no way meant to screw around the with player.

The scripts are written in such a way as to take the historical aspect of the battle and explain in exact detail the possibilities that might arise on the battlefield from the perspective of the commander in the field. Consider it a reconnaissance report; and you have to decide for yourself what information is and is not valid. And, given this AI, you might see the computer do one thing four times in a row, and on the fifth something completely unexpected.

But, in certain places, some effort is required to understand exactly what the intent of the message actually is. A lot of time and effort has gone into minimizing this issue. And if there are any specific 'briefings' you find obtuse or perhaps incorrect, please send it to me personally and I'll make sure it is corrected. 

I'm glad you enjoy the game. 

If you're replaying the Train Station, I have a few tricks you might enjoy learning. There is a reason the icon of Frederick Lander riding down the hill at Phillipi sits in the corner of my posts. Several reasons, actually. 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

29 minutes ago, Aetius said:

The general rule of thumb is to ignore the briefings entirely. The advice is often deadly, especially at higher difficulty levels. The one thing  you need to watch out for is when they say things like "you must take this objective!" - about half the time, if you don't take the objective, you will immediately lose the battle regardless of any other victory conditions.

I've been meaning to start a thread for my own use with the actual battle timers and objectives, but haven't gotten around to it. It's definitely needed, though, because the game is just awful sometimes at telling you what you need to know to win (or avoid losing unexpectedly).

I'll disagree with your complete disregard to the briefings; but would be more than happy to help build a spread sheet with the battles, objectives, and timer details mapped out completely. 

[MishaTX]

I actually like the briefings, with the caveat that, as has been mentioned already, it's really hard at times to figure out, in the multi phase battles,  which of the objectives are "good idea to take" objectives, and which are "absolutely must take, or it's sudden death defeat for you" objectives. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by MishaTX

[Wandering1]

1 hour ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

I'll disagree with your complete disregard to the briefings; but would be more than happy to help build a spread sheet with the battles, objectives, and timer details mapped out completely. 

I would say, in general, that the briefings are best understood when you have good knowledge of the game's terminology and mechanics.

The OP, from what I was interpreting, left entire brigades in the north, when this is not the intended behavior. It is intended to use detached skirmishers in 100% cover to force the enemy to trigger early charges, draining condition, and among other things, opening those charging brigades to cross fire from the brigades that are not getting charged (which causes a rout, and thus, achieves the intended objective of stalling).

Similarly, one should be stalling on the opening tutorial mission for Confederates using the cover when possible, and retreating to reload. Otherwise, using the skirmishers to envelop the brigades engaged with the units on the fortifications to get flanking shots.

As far as the briefings go, whether they should be tailored to the experienced player, or to a person who has no inkling of the historical events of the battle, is a different question.

[quicksabre]

5 hours ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

would be more than happy to help build a spread sheet with the battles, objectives, and timer details mapped out completely. 

I would like this a lot. I'm especially confused when it comes to the temporary objectives in the grand battles. For example, having just played Stones River in my Union campaign, what would have happened had I just abandoned the southern objective in the first round of the battle, focusing instead on holding the northern one and then carefully retreating back to my fortifications as the map expanded? Besides likely losing far fewer experienced soldiers?

 

Edit - when it comes to the briefings, I like them. They give me enough info to make a plan but leave enough to speculation that I'm immersed and still surprised when new things happen. It's a good dynamic.

Edited May 15, 2017 by quicksabre

[Andre Bolkonsky]

3 hours ago, Wandering1 said:

I would say, in general, that the briefings are best understood when you have good knowledge of the game's terminology and mechanics.

 

Spot on.

Dartis uses very particular language in these scripts that people might not pick up on at first glance, sometimes you have to read something twice to completely understand it. But he is invariably historically accurate in his terminology, and always endeavors to keep an active verb tense to keep the gamer immersed in the experience. IMHO, the gamer will get a better education rising to the language of the briefing. 

[Koro]

You realize the victory conditions are in the top right corner? 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

8 hours ago, Koro said:

You realize the victory conditions are in the top right corner? 

Yes. 

It doesn't the change the point we're making. 

[quicksabre]

8 hours ago, Koro said:

You realize the victory conditions are in the top right corner? 

Yes. That's my point exactly. In the Stones River example I could see that the objectives weren't on the map in the first phase, and from paying attention to the briefing I knew that the objectives I had to hold were on my left. But the scenario gave me temporary objectives and I didn't know the consequences of holding them or not. Are there even consequences?

[Karri]

I skip the briefings always, they are completely useless and generally wrong.

[A. P. Hill]

The briefings are nice for a quick aerial overall of the map.

[Aetius]

6 hours ago, quicksabre said:

But the scenario gave me temporary objectives and I didn't know the consequences of holding them or not. Are there even consequences?

In that battle, no - as the Union, you can abandon them for better defensive positions to the north, and as the Confederates you can ignore them. However, that is not always the case, and there are several instances where you will instantly lose if you lose an objective, which is not explained in the briefing or in the victory conditions (Confederate 2nd Bull Run comes to mind).