Robert Sterling Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) I had seen people complain about this before, but thought it was a minor problem. Until it happened to me. Pursing a brig...ran it down after slowing it down. IN comes another player with a much larger ship (IM still in a newb ship) he rolls up (poor handling on his part) we collide damaging my ship. He then proceeds to get in my firing line and cutting me off every chance he got, including smashing into me a second time. He ended up boarding the ship and stealing it. There has gotta be a better way to do this. I have spent forever trying to level (which is painfully slow as it is)...having to deal with higher level players sliding into my battles is a huge pain into my ass. When they are overly aggressive like this guy...frankly it makes me just want to quit the game...leveling is slow enough..when guys on your own side are stealing your spawns... ....I was so annoyed I just logged off. Edited February 6, 2016 by Robert Sterling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Happened to me too - first time a random player joined my match - great. Right from the start after he joined I told him we (friend and me) intend to take the ship a prize. He didn't answer - I immediately knew what would happen and I was right. After bringing the Brig down, HE quickly boarded it which pissed me off so much. He ignored multiple messages, he knew exactly what was going on and he could tell by us shooting chain and grape what we wanted to do - he just tried to steal it. I drove between him and my prize and disconnected him. It was a mistake, because he was LOSING the boarding progress. That would have been so funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Sterling Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 What they need to do is give boarding priority to the first person to initiate the combat. Others can join and get xps for damage or help wearing the ship down. But first guy in gets to board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedlox Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I just resort to ramming them or sailing on top of them, sometimes even just kill the ship if it's a trader. That's if they don't respond or do anything but waiting to board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 If one of these low life thieves spawns into my Trader hunt, then I just leave and find another Trader! Why should I do all the work and let them take the Prize. The unwelcome spawn happens within 5 minutes of Battle start, so not too much work has been done by me when they arrive. Plenty of Traders on the High Seas, who needs the aggravation of dealing with a thief! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Sterling Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 If one of these low life thieves spawns into my Trader hunt, then I just leave and find another Trader! Why should I do all the work and let them take the Prize. The unwelcome spawn happens within 5 minutes of Battle start, so not too much work has been done by me when they arrive. Plenty of Traders on the High Seas, who needs the aggravation of dealing with a thief! True and smart...I will do that next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tindahbawx Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Would this be a viable use of the report function, or is stealing other peoples ships in this fashion working as desired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBudmonkey Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 It s a big problem atm and is essentially greifing - you should make a report incl the players name and screen shots of you asking them to desist in chat then send it into the devs and enjoy getting that person banned - simple solution. you can also call them out in your nations chat channel - no one likes a thief - they are exploiting a game mechanic to take your capture without any consequences to themselves Maybe they would be less willing to steal your trader capture if they know it will cause them problems later in the game or even get them banned - it would be nice if the mods would make an official response to this issue as it has been raised in a number of threads - i personally have to deal with it at least once a day - i am not far from just going pirate so i can kill anyone who wants to mess with my game 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatio Rasta Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Its a problem alright, but it should be part of an open world sandbox mmo. Its about immersion and freedom, if theres a trader hes free game for everyone in the proximity why give an advantage to the one guy initiating the fight?! Sounds like hand holding and especially unrealistic in a game that tries to emulate a realistic setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartholomew Badgerbeard Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Am I the only one who thinks this is only problem if you let it be one? Missions should be individual or pre-made only, no argument there. But open world battles? This I'm on the fence about at the moment. Maybe I've played a certain space-based mmo too long, but I hold to the sentiment "It's not yours until it's in the hanger". A ship only belongs to me when I cap it, if someone interrupts that cap then I myself have possibly messed up somewhere...probably by choosing to attack a trader in a heavy traffic area etc. My name is not on that NPC, it's not my mission it's open world....it belongs to whoever gets it home. If a ship I've worked down gets jumped by another player, oh well, there's always the next one. There are always options available if someone goes for the same target as you. Leave/ sink it before they do/ sink it before they cap it and so on. I understand it can be irritating, but unless there is green on green it should never be something that the GM's have to get involved in. Green on green is a no-no, and should remain so until such time as the devs decide to let players do whatever they want to each other and let the game police itself....which I don't think would work all that well atm Seriously, I hunt away from capitols, I have never had a trader 'jacked by another player. On one occasion I had an Admiralty Order mission "invaded" by a couple of players, and subsequently I moved to a more secluded location to grind XP. This is not hard, and all it takes to be largely free from these frustrations is to sail (enter direction of choice here) for a few days and set up shop away from the masses. I'm not in any way advocating the breaking of any rules here, I would just like to encourage people to consider the ramifications of asking for ever tighter rules and restrictions on what is, supposedly, an open world "sand box" game that will (hopefully) give rise to some interesting emergent game-play. The more rules you have, the less of a sand-box it is, please be very carefull what you ask for or complain about...particularly if the problem is remarkably easy to avoid in the first place. Peace, Yaaaarr! Edited February 6, 2016 by Badgerbeard 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrocznaSurykatka Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Now that green on green is prohibited this is a big problem as you have almost no chance to defend you'rs prize. You begin combat, someone joins and ignores everything you write, you capture trader and proceed to get rid of escorts and by the time you'r done little bastard get a free capture with x and left the battle with ship you captured. If you shoot him -xp and ban, if you kill escorts first - he gets time to capture trader unmolested, if you take trader with x and quit battle - you lose durability. Only option I see is to ram and capsize every little annoying cutter that joins you'rs battle - but thats propably bannable now as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdoomed Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The best defense of this would be the community on your server. Announce the jerk players name and keep it written down. If said player gets a reputation for it his own nation will know he is kos. Once i realize this is gonna happen to me (the perps never talk so its a give away) i just sink the ship so neithet of us get it and the a hole player wasted his time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBudmonkey Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The best defense of this would be the community on your server. Announce the jerk players name and keep it written down. If said player gets a reputation for it his own nation will know he is kos. Once i realize this is gonna happen to me (the perps never talk so its a give away) i just sink the ship so neithet of us get it and the a hole player wasted his time. The problem is that you cant attack a player from your own nation - so they are basically immune from repercussions. If they allowed team damage inside battle instances people would abuse it to team kill - Whilst its a sandbox yes and the less interference the better- i am seeing this occur a lot to newer players - basically more experienced players greifing newer players and using game mechanics to take captures that others have done the work for. maybe a wall of shame would be a good idea on forums - but i bet they wouldnt allow it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdoomed Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The problem is that you cant attack a player from your own nation - so they are basically immune from repercussions. If they allowed team damage inside battle instances people would abuse it to team kill - Whilst its a sandbox yes and the less interference the better- i am seeing this occur a lot to newer players - basically more experienced players greifing newer players and using game mechanics to take captures that others have done the work for. maybe a wall of shame would be a good idea on forums - but i bet they wouldnt allow it Ahh my bad. Im a pirate we can attack each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrocznaSurykatka Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Ahh my bad. Im a pirate we can attack each other. No we can't. Green on green is forbidden, so any greifer that joins you'r battle is immune to any contraction on you'r part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubble Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I agree with Badgerbeard, if you are going to take missions or do combat in heavy traffic areas then you should expect this to happen, do a little work and move away from the crowds rather than expecting everything to revolve around you. Its an open world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrocznaSurykatka Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I agree with Badgerbeard, if you are going to take missions or do combat in heavy traffic areas then you should expect this to happen, do a little work and move away from the crowds rather than expecting everything to revolve around you. Its an open world. It's not a problem with everything revolving about you. It's a problem with having no option to opose griefers. If I attack a trader and somone is trying to steal it from me i should be allowed to opose such action. Under current rules this hardly possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartholomew Badgerbeard Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) Now that green on green is prohibited this is a big problem as you have almost no chance to defend you'rs prize. You begin combat, someone joins and ignores everything you write, you capture trader and proceed to get rid of escorts and by the time you'r done little bastard get a free capture with x and left the battle with ship you captured. If you shoot him -xp and ban, if you kill escorts first - he gets time to capture trader unmolested, if you take trader with x and quit battle - you lose durability. Only option I see is to ram and capsize every little annoying cutter that joins you'rs battle - but thats propably bannable now as well Couple of questions... 1) At what point exactly does it become "your" prize? ,When you click battle? When you first land a hit on it? ....or when it is resting in your docks back at port? 2) If someone joins and ignores everything you write, why exactly do you continue getting rid of the escorts? Likelihood is it's someone who wants to 'jack the prize, surely it would be wiser to cut your losses and bug out, or simply hang back and let them do the work and then take the prize yourself? 3) Why are you not going after ships when/ where there are not a bunch of hijackers about? Lots of ports, lots of traders, lots of prizes to be had....go for the ones which you can take by yourself. I honestly think the problem is one of expectations. There seems to be a growing trend among some players to go around shouting "mine...mine....mine!" over every random trader spawn that happens within their view range. A random spawn is just that, random, it's free for all to go after. Missions were a different matter, but free game is free game. If a player (and I count myself as one of these) chooses not to interfere with a kill or capture that was initiated by someone else, then kudos for being nice, but that's very much a personal choice. Bear in mind there may well be reasons beyond the obvious in many cases of "stealing" which should not be interfered with. A brief example if I may.... Imagine if clan A (let's use pirates for this example shall we) is in direct territorial competition with clan B. Whatever the reason these two clans have decided to be at war with each other. Now player(s) from clan A jump a trader in the open world, and are spotted doing so by players from clan B. The clan B players enter the battle but are green to clan A players so direct conflict would be green on green. However, going after the prize so as to deny their opposition material resources would be, in my opinion, perfectly sensible. In the long run these two clans could work to deny sufficient resources to each other to drive one clan to seek safer waters...War won:) This kind of resource denial would not be possible if there were hard and fast rules against taking a kill if you were not the one who just happened to click Attack first. Now you may argue this to be a rare occurrence. However with the current state of the market regarding supply and demand, resource denial is a potentially potent tool (even on the pve server) to protect the interests of a group operating in a specific area. Ultimately this kind of ruling would be a clear indication as to whether this game is indeed meant as an open world sand-box style of adventure, with game-play being developed by the players themselves almost as much as the devs. Or, whether it's going to be an fluffy imitation of a sand box, with constant hand-holding and group hugs around the camp fire. I would prefer the former, many might prefer the latter, a nice balance between the two might be the best solution. I for one am perfectly ok with games that allow other players to **** with me, as long as there are always options to avoid, mitigate or retaliate if I take the time to learn how. Then it's on me to be smarter than those who want to mess with me, and that is as much (or more) a challenge as learning how to shoot straight. It's what makes competitive games interesting. Perhaps rather than asking for hand holding measures, we would be better served asking the devs for some form of PvP "flagging" system within random encounters that allow for defending "your" prize against transgressors. Naturally this may entail some risk if you are getting deliberately baited, but again making that call is part of the excitement. "can I take him?" "Does he have back-up" all questions you would need to consider before striking back, the brave would fight, the cowardly would run.....and which Navy rewards cowards? Avoiding getting your prize 'jacked is pathetically easy, those who can't be bothered to take simple steps to secure a prize do not, in my opinion, deserve it. But that is not a popular point of view nowadays it seems. I'm not trying to be insulting with this post, I'm simply someone who finds games that require a reasonable amount of thought, preparation and nerve to be more interesting than super-safe carebear games (somewhat ironic given I mostly play on the PvE server for now certainly ) I am very interested however in the direction the devs are going to take with this. Edited February 6, 2016 by Badgerbeard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrocznaSurykatka Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Badgerbeard I'm not saing taking or competing for "prizes" should be in any way blocked or limited. I am all for beeing able to snach a ship right from under noses of competition. What I'm saing is wrong, is not beeing able to opose such actions. I should not be forced to search for a place with no other players just so I can hunt for targets. This open world multiplayer game, doing this is not why i chose to play it. What I'm saing is that when I encounter a player who is acting against me i should be allowed to take action against such player and he should be allowed to take action against me. If somone is trying to take you'r prize he's clearly not green to you, you should be allowed to broadside you'r point of view right back at him. Under current rules all you can do to avoid getting you'r targets stolen from you is either hunt where there are no other players - which is not why I play MMO games, if I want no competition I rather chose a single player game, or disengage and search for other target, which, again, is actualy removing myself from multiplayer aspect of this game. I should be allowed to compete against my oponents for prizes, but right now griefers and prize stealers can act with impunity. If somone is acting against me I should be allowed to respond in kind and, again he should be allowed to counter my response. I'm not sying that "I attacked it first, it's MINE" should be implemented in ANY way, just that I should be allowed to protect my intrests in other ways than disengaging from any conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Sterling Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 I would have little problem with this if I was actually allowed to retaliate. Given that my only option is to attack the thief which does me little good since then I only lose xps AND the prize. Pretty much I have zero options beyond wasting my time yet again looking for somewhere else to hunt all because of an immature player base. If the devs aren't going to do something about this, then they should allow me to fire on any ship that enters my battle if they are ignoring my chat and honing in on a prize that I have already done the work for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartholomew Badgerbeard Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Badgerbeard I'm not saing taking or competing for "prizes" should be in any way blocked or limited. I am all for beeing able to snach a ship right from under noses of competition. What I'm saing is wrong, is not beeing able to opose such actions. I should not be forced to search for a place with no other players just so I can hunt for targets. This open world multiplayer game, doing this is not why i chose to play it. What I'm saing is that when I encounter a player who is acting against me i should be allowed to take action against such player and he should be allowed to take action against me. If somone is trying to take you'r prize he's clearly not green to you, you should be allowed to broadside you'r point of view right back at him. Under current rules all you can do to avoid getting you'r targets stolen from you is either hunt where there are no other players - which is not why I play MMO games, if I want no competition I rather chose a single player game, or disengage and search for other target, which, again, is actualy removing myself from multiplayer aspect of this game. I should be allowed to compete against my oponents for prizes, but right now griefers and prize stealers can act with impunity. If somone is acting against me I should be allowed to respond in kind and, again he should be allowed to counter my response. I'm not sying that "I attacked it first, it's MINE" should be implemented in ANY way, just that I should be allowed to protect my intrests in other ways than disengaging from any conflict. Then we are largely in agreement on this score. However, one point I was trying to make, is that sometimes the best way to fight back is to outthink someone so that a conflict does not arise in the first place, hence hunting "off the beaten path" so to speak. If you, or others, wish to use trader spawns as a means to initiate conflict, then yes, there should most definitely be mechanics in place to allow for this (especially on a PvP server). This is very much in keeping with a risk vs. reward style of gameplay. I did not mean my previous post to come across as any kind of personal dig at you in particular, it's just that the way you referred to "your prize", " your battle", " the ship you captured" (although you had not at that time actually captured it if I read your post correctly) is sort of what I was getting at..... It's not yours until you have it safely back in port, up until that point it's anybody's. I do recognise that the instanced nature of the ship combat is largely responsible for the proprietary feeling many players have if they are the first to attack a NPC, but it's whether or not that feeling is justified within the larger framework of an open world sandbox that I am questioning. The instances are required by the overall mechanics (time scaling being the major one I'd guess), no way around that really, but the decision needs to be made and communicated as to whether the "claiming" of a ship that you have not yet captured is a valid reason to issue complaint against a fellow player, or players. Fighting over a prize would be the preferred option for me, how such mechanics could be implemented without introducing unforeseen and undesirable loopholes for true "griefing"...now that's a tricky one for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrocznaSurykatka Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The way to resolve this may be an option to fire on green targets in you'r instance, but by doing so, setting yourself as red to everyone else. This should be limited only to instances created when you attacked an AI, as not to alow this to be used for damage farming. By allowing to do so you get a option - you can force other player to disengage you'r target, risking facing everyone who joins in. This should be allowed only for player who creates instance - if you join in, you'r green and you'r there to help, if you fire on him, you get normal penalty, if he feels you'r interfeering in any way, he can retaliate but if he fires on you - he's red and all bets are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdoomed Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) No we can't. Green on green is forbidden, so any greifer that joins you'r battle is immune to any contraction on you'r part.Wierd ive not only been attacked by fellow pirate but ive seen others attacked.Nevermind we are clearly talking about 2 different things. Edited February 6, 2016 by Mrdoomed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrocznaSurykatka Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Wierd ive not only been attacked by fellow pirate but ive seen others attacked. Nevermind we are clearly talking about 2 different things. Yes - you can attack other pirates, but you are not allowed to attack anyone green to you in battle - even if he's acting against you in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benass Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 U can't attack Green ships in battle. U can but it is a bannable offence. Dont do it. If u have a ship to capture, work it down and some one boards it first, it is very easy to take it back. Position yourself and full sails in between two ships separating boarding. The guys gets 60 sec boarding cool down. U Board the ship. But he can do the same. Remember there is no such thing as MINE. but again majority players are good. so these events are rare to none in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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