Discussion on Etiquette: Shooting Through Friendly Sails / Masts

[Aussie_Fox]

Blatant action of this kind SHOULD face sanctions.There are however instances where this can happen by accident,but good Situational Awareness would reduce the occurance,

 

 

i wish, just had it happen to me. albiet the end of a battle. unloaded a broadside through my ship just to get those extra couple hundred points of damage on an allready sinking ship. not to mention the guy damage farmed 90% of the game on an AFK ship

[Leviathan]

1. No

2. No

3. Most likely no but situational

 

The only time I see a reason to fire through sails is in the following scenario.

 

You are the only Victory on your team and also the largest ship. The only enemy Victory, also the largest ship, has closed to within 3 ship lengths of you with this broadside exposed. He will reload soon and quickly unload into you shortly after. You have him lined up and can hit him with double but a friendly Cerberus sails between you both. You know the enemy will have no problem firing through your teammates sails to hit you and he will be reloaded before the Cerberus clears. This is one of those critical moments where the damage meter may tip and whoever can sink the other the fastest gives their team a huge advantage for the rest of the battle.

[Grim DeGrim]

Ironically, as this coincides with 2 or 3 tribunal threads on a similar topic, I can think back to a storm map where I've done exactly what you've described.

I can recall a British chap saying in comms "There you go Grim!" (jokingly) after I let the volley fly through a Surprise's sails right into the broadside of a Santi.

It was a prefect storm of events: The surprise sailing into my arc after I ranged in, the Santi high on the swell, and the surprise coming in low, and my ship neither heeling or rolling on the waves...

But I would have no defense in a tribunal (other than saying it was accidental fire... But I wouldn't take that route).

So, I think, communication is best. In a future game play environment, most of the folks I'll be fleeting with, will be on comms. Based on that we can discuss the rapidly transpiring events as they occur and head off misunderstanding.

FF is never wished upon by anyone, and I share that belief. But I am not fully black & white on the topic (as is obvious!).

Edited February 27, 2015 by Grim DeGrim

[Grim DeGrim]

PS - no fault of the surprise. Storm map, in a scrum after the charge.

The responsibility remains with the captain that gives the order to fire.

[Thonar]

IMO:
The captains are responsible for the location of their ship on the battlefield.

Thus: As soon as it is obvious, that one ship shouldn't fight a certain enemy, while directly behind him a ship is that should, he is in a crap position and it is his fault, thus, it is better he takes the consequences instead of the Team.

 

An example:
Blue-Victory fights Red-Santi side by side. The victory Needs every little bit of damage against its opponent... suddenly a Blue-Consti crosses LoF. Sorry, Consti, I will fire through your sails, because you are no match for the Santi.

Same situation but instead of a Blue-Consti it is a Blue-Bellona: Well, the Bell is a SoL... I will not shoot through her, even when I know it will lose the fight.

 

Blue-Victory vs Red-Bellona and a Blue-Consti crosses: I will not fire through his sails.

 

So in short: As soon as the ship, that crosses the LoF of a friend, has no chance against the enemy to make at least decisive damage, he is dead meat and I will not take care for dead meat.
 

[kang]

I'd avoid it the first time and, if it happens again, prob take the shot.  The assumption being you have many more guns that aren't firing than the dude sitting in gunnery view and blocking your shot.  If i happen to wander into sol's firing solution, i'd probably want the sol to fire and pray to the rng gods while i'm turning out of the way.

[Kaaru62]

my play style puts me close to the enemy so I know I am in the way. I tell my team to not spare my sails and take the shot when they need to. when I am in the way I expect to take shots, sometimes even a few hull hits.

 

there was an incident the other day when MG had to take a shot on a Victory with his Victory when I was in the way, he told me he needed to take the shot so I told him to do it. to my amazement he sent a whole salvo over my deck, through my sails hitting the enemy Victory and never reduced my sails by even1% or hit my hull.

 

awesome shot

[poosd]

Gentlemen  (this is one mans humble opinion...that and .25 cents may buy you a cup of coffee somewhere),

 

First off, I fall into the "Old Fart" category on our age survey, so that may better explain the length of this post (he's an old guy and has nothing better to do...well....kind 'a).

 

I tend to play this game as if I were role playing the part of a captain of a real ship.  I know that in real life there were, and ARE "officers/leaders" that would kill and sacrifice their own for a victory at any price.  History is full with their names.

But what I like to think about when playing N/A is what is really happening on our little video battle field. 

 

You, the leader are making a conscious decision to KILL your own people....the most valuable resource you have on the battle field for the win of one battle, or even for one good salvo. You may disable that friendly vessel where it will be captured or destroyed later.  At a minimum you'll certainly kill folks working up in that ships rigging (yes, I know, they are just little numbers on the screen...but what if they were not?). 

 

It's one thing to have fratricide on a battlefield by accident, in the heat of battle.  Go watch some of the videos on YouTube where pilots of jets or helicopters squeezed off rounds in the heat of battle at what they thought were enemy's and then discovered that they had killed some of their own.  Listen to the anguish in there voices when they realized what they had just done.  It's another thing to, as a LEADER, make a conscious decision to kill your own for a single battle or single shot.  You've already brought your people into battle, they have already accepted that they may die for YOU and "the cause".  Now you sacrifice them because you are impatient!  Or because their captain on their ship is an idiot and unskilled?  Is that their fault?

 

I realize that we are playing a game here. I will repeat that for those of you who may think I'm going too deep here....I realize that we are playing a game here! 

 

We all play games to be able to do things that we would never be able to do in real life.  Most of us also play games to learn, and most, so that we never have to pay the "real" price that the people who fought the real battles paid.  There is a saying out there that "you fight like you train".  I like to play our little game as I believe I would act if I were standing on a real quarter deck of a sailing warship in battle.  If a fellow allied captain pulled his vessel in to my line of fire, would I look at his ship and the men on the decks and say, "to hell with 'em...he shouldn't have gotten in my way"...and then order my crew to fire a broadside through, or even over his vessel?  You're talking about a moral decision here, not a game play decision.  And don't good games make us make those types of decisions without the pain of being wrong? 

 

Go read some of the Alexander Kent series and look at the struggles that Richard Bolitho has in this very arena, how much do I value my men.  Military leaders are on a regular basis asked to put in harms way those they love...their men (and in this day and age women too)!  And GOOD leaders can, and have led troops to hell and back...and their troops have gone willingly with them, because the troops knew and trusted their leaders!  But everyone, whether leader or follower knows when they are being sacrificed for another's ego...or for "the win at any cost" mentality.  If you today believe in the saying that "it's not whether you win or loose, it's how you played the game", you are considered a fool, an anachronism.

 

We want immersive games.  We want to "fell" like we are there!  But we don't want to take real risks!  Games like this should make us THINK !  And from what I've seen on these Naval Action forums....there are A LOT of THINKERS in this group.  Like others have said here before....just my two cents worth.

 

My apologies to Sir Grim DeGrim if I've taken your post in a too direction.

 

Thanks for the therapy session!

 

Dean

(poosd)
 

[Grim DeGrim]

Your points are well received, and valued. This is more of a "meta gaming" decision, versus any moral or ethical.

In fact, technically, you're killing the masts. The crew count remains unchanged when shooting through the sails.

It is a fine hair being split, but what else can I offer in the face of such a compelling presentation!

[Booyaah]

My general rules I have come up with:

 

1) If a ship has established a straight sailing lane over a period of time, say 5+ seconds, and you cross into that path, it is your job to avoid him.  Typically smaller vessels like Surprise and lower should always yield to larger ships.

 

2) If you are behind a teammate, and then cut at an angle into their line of fire to get a quick volley off, and then don't start slowing back down to get out of the way of your teammate that is real rude imo, and I would say if they don't start moving after a single shot through their sails, then they just aren't paying attention I wouldn't hesitate to fire through their sails especially if you are in a larger ship. 

 

3) If in the chaos you are following a teammate and he is slowing down for a maneuver (and maybe he is in aim mode and hasn't checked behind himself) and is clearly targeting a ship, and you want to go around him, try and go around the far side and not go into his line of fire.

 

4) Give SOLs room to move.  It sounds like common sense but many don't do it...sometimes even I have admittedly been guilty of it.  I think the worse is when you are sailing on the sides of SOL and don't give them any wiggle room to line up a broadside.  I would give them a full ship length on all sides at least.

 

5) If a large SOL in the front of the line calls a heading change it is your job to move around him, regardless if you agree with their decision or not to turn the line.

 

6) If you are the front SOL please do no constantly 'stutter step'.  What I mean is once you set a speed stick with it...if you want to go from half to full, then that's fine, but a lot of time I see these ships just always randomly slow down and multiple ships will have to break out of the line to go around them and it causes the proverbial traffic jam because I'm like running into them on dead slow with my sails neutralized.  If you need to slow down, at least say 'slowing down' or 'stopping' at least.

 

Part of the problem is it is hard to convey your navigation intentions easily to other players (no ping/waypoint system)...that is on the developers to improve it.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Booyaah

[Flixerine]

1 No

2 Maybe

3 Maybe-Yes

 

To be honest there were quite a few battles where I got more damage from allies than from enemies, either because they didn't care, or didn't see.

 

A lot can also be done simply by aiming well, even if it sacrifices a bit of damage, just to make sure the allied ship doesn't get hit. I'd also appreciate some sort of signal system, or at least better fire control, like if a small ship passes by to only fire the upper rows of guns which clearly won't hit it, and tell it to get its sails in so they won't get damaged.

[Plak]

1 Maybe

2 Maybe

3 Maybe

 

It really depends massively how the fleet you are sailing with is structured.

From a historical point of view anyone wandering between the lines might have been courtmartialed anyway if it was not ordered.

It also depends on the orders from the commander of the fleet. In that case he has to deal with the consequences.

If it is a ragtag band of merry captains I would probably only shoot in case 3 except when the captain in the blocking vessel would actively ask me to take the shot.

If someone keeps getting in the way all the time and does not react to chat (signaling), I would assume him be a traitor and take the shot in all 3 cases.

 

This does bring up a rather interesting point on commanders of the fleet for a battle and organizing the ships in different squadroons.