Some Concerns On Rebuild Functionality in Campaign

[Jager14]

Greetings All!

(Feel free to skip text wall to Tl;Dr at bottom)

Long time lurker, I have been playing since the game dropped...wow almost a year or more ago? It's been a long time. Mostly, my concerns are voiced by others and so I usually don't have much otherwise to say, but I had some thoughts and suggestions. The major one on my mind for this post is focused on the ship builder and its' implementation in the upcoming campaign. I do understand that a rework of the builder is (is?) in the works for the future, these are things to just perhaps bear in mind: 

How does the game team intend to allow for potential major rebuilds or refits in the designer? 

I'm talking full on Conte Di Cavour style facelifts that can completely change the performance, armament, and appearance on what is otherwise an older hull. This is very important because historically EVERY navy of this time period did major refits and rebuilds, to some extent, on their more expensive investments. This saved cost obviously on building a new hull, and it also extended the lifespan of older designs in a period of technological explosion. However, we should also be able to conduct smaller refits and refinements as well. Things like new more efficient boilers of the same type, or more accurate turrets of a similar design to those equipped.

Potentially shipping this game without some sort of answer for this, I think, misses a very BIG element of naval management. As it exists, the current shipbuilder is very limiting in this aspect. For example, I can't potentially refit a ship with a straight stem to a clipper bow. Big "L". You can't custom build superstructures or redesign machinery spaces, other than choosing the next big number or the better pre-designed set (which might not even fit) so ships will be arbitrarily made impossible to refit or rebuild. What about adding torpedo bulges to an older ship with a somewhat obsolete torpedo defense system, an old battlecruiser for example? Sure it may already be a secondary or reserve capital ship already, but it is still worth a lot of money. Cheaper to add those bulges than to build a new battlecruiser for the same role, right? Maybe you have a huge number of aging destroyers. Do you sell them for a severely depreciated scrap value, or perhaps refit them to be coastal patrol craft or dedicated escort ships? Armament even too! Your ship just need to replace old barrels? Can do, maybe a few months moored at home station and done. No need to redesign or build an entirely new hull. Or, want to rearm it with your shiny new 15 inchers from the old 12 inchers? That’s cool, you’ll have to deal with a reduction in barrels for sure, and less ammo. But now you got bigger guns on an older hull without coughing up the dough for an entirely new design and study board.

Tl;Dr:

I think a much more custom ship designer (similar to the features 1MajorKoenig has on his list of suggestions) would make this sort of feature a trifle to implement. Other games have it as well and present simple cost and benefit. It adds depth. Do you spend significant money to refit an older battleship, or spend more money and time building a new one? Strategy right there, and real decisions real naval boards would have to digest. It also allows the smaller, more monetarily disadvantaged navies to make the most of their existing fleet. As an Italian main in a certain other game of this flavor, I certainly rely heavily on my rebuilds to keep my battleship numbers up since I cannot always afford to build new ones constantly.

Please let me know all your thoughts on this!

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Jager14

[Stormnet]

I think that would be awesome. This would also add an extra layer of decision making

Do you scrap that aging ship or do you modernise it?

A 1920 battlecruiser could still be perfectly up for the task in 1940, if modernized, but a 1890 battleship is more than obsolete by 1910 standards and a waste of money to fully renovate, so you would leave it for either a cheap coastal defense or just scrap it if it was expensive to maintain.

[Jager14]

4 hours ago, Stormnet said:

I think that would be awesome. This would also add an extra layer of decision making

Do you scrap that aging ship or do you modernise it?

A 1920 battlecruiser could still be perfectly up for the task in 1940, if modernized, but a 1890 battleship is more than obsolete by 1910 standards and a waste of money to fully renovate, so you would leave it for either a cheap coastal defense or just scrap it if it was expensive to maintain.

That’s exactly what I’m talking about!

[1MajorKoenig]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:38 AM, Jager14 said:

Greetings All!

(Feel free to skip text wall to Tl;Dr at bottom)

Long time lurker, I have been playing since the game dropped...wow almost a year or more ago? It's been a long time. Mostly, my concerns are voiced by others and so I usually don't have much otherwise to say, but I had some thoughts and suggestions. The major one on my mind for this post is focused on the ship builder and its' implementation in the upcoming campaign. I do understand that a rework of the builder is (is?) in the works for the future, these are things to just perhaps bear in mind: 

How does the game team intend to allow for potential major rebuilds or refits in the designer? 

I'm talking full on Conte Di Cavour style facelifts that can completely change the performance, armament, and appearance on what is otherwise an older hull. This is very important because historically EVERY navy of this time period did major refits and rebuilds, to some extent, on their more expensive investments. This saved cost obviously on building a new hull, and it also extended the lifespan of older designs in a period of technological explosion. However, we should also be able to conduct smaller refits and refinements as well. Things like new more efficient boilers of the same type, or more accurate turrets of a similar design to those equipped.

Potentially shipping this game without some sort of answer for this, I think, misses a very BIG element of naval management. As it exists, the current shipbuilder is very limiting in this aspect. For example, I can't potentially refit a ship with a straight stem to a clipper bow. Big "L". You can't custom build superstructures or redesign machinery spaces, other than choosing the next big number or the better pre-designed set (which might not even fit) so ships will be arbitrarily made impossible to refit or rebuild. What about adding torpedo bulges to an older ship with a somewhat obsolete torpedo defense system, an old battlecruiser for example? Sure it may already be a secondary or reserve capital ship already, but it is still worth a lot of money. Cheaper to add those bulges than to build a new battlecruiser for the same role, right? Maybe you have a huge number of aging destroyers. Do you sell them for a severely depreciated scrap value, or perhaps refit them to be coastal patrol craft or dedicated escort ships? Armament even too! Your ship just need to replace old barrels? Can do, maybe a few months moored at home station and done. No need to redesign or build an entirely new hull. Or, want to rearm it with your shiny new 15 inchers from the old 12 inchers? That’s cool, you’ll have to deal with a reduction in barrels for sure, and less ammo. But now you got bigger guns on an older hull without coughing up the dough for an entirely new design and study board.

Tl;Dr:

I think a much more custom ship designer (similar to the features 1MajorKoenig has on his list of suggestions) would make this sort of feature a trifle to implement. Other games have it as well and present simple cost and benefit. It adds depth. Do you spend significant money to refit an older battleship, or spend more money and time building a new one? Strategy right there, and real decisions real naval boards would have to digest. It also allows the smaller, more monetarily disadvantaged navies to make the most of their existing fleet. As an Italian main in a certain other game of this flavor, I certainly rely heavily on my rebuilds to keep my battleship numbers up since I cannot always afford to build new ones constantly.

Please let me know all your thoughts on this!

 

These are exactly my thoughts as well. The devs said that rebuilding would be a thing but in the current options it is hard to imagine how that looks like. 
 

Although the devs also mentioned some improvements and extension to the designer so I have hopes they take it far enough we can build and rebuild cool stuff! Actually rebuilding old designs is one of my favourite parts so I really hope for the best!

 

On 2/24/2021 at 10:38 AM, Jager14 said:

think a much more custom ship designer (similar to the features 1MajorKoenig has on his list of suggestions)

Thanks mate!