Faith

[Dragonfire]

Personally I don't think I would want a crew that based their actions on a religious upbringing and might hesitate at a critical moment in a battle due to "moral" teachings and beliefs.

As a captain I say fire on that ship you had better not hesitate because of moral turmoil in your thinking the ship and crews lives might depend on it.

You do and we survive the instance dire retribution is in your future you may as well jump ship cause your life is over as you know it if I do not shoot you dead the instant you show such action in battle.

[Tom Pullings]

Time frame is the 18th century and just into the early 19th century.  Most of the ships so far are late 18th c. and Napoleonic/Revolutionary era.  And the game is set in Europe and the Americas, not the planet as a whole.  There was no feudalism in this time and place.  The church had very little if any role in politics.  It was a colonial time, but those colonies and further colonization were not primarily religious anymore.  The universities were not primarily run by or associated with the church.  Lower level schools were hugely varied, but increasingly state organized and run, and most people didn't get much formal schooling.  

 

Again, I would invite anyone interested to do even the most casual research into widely available histories of the 18th c.  Heck, just do a little reading in Wikipedia at least.  Indeed, the beginning of the 17th c and the turn of the 18th c are a whole world apart in terms of social organization and worldviews.  

[SirWili]

Time frame is the 18th century and just into the early 19th century. Most of the ships so far are late 18th c. and Napoleonic/Revolutionary era. And the game is set in Europe and the Americas, not the planet as a whole. There was no feudalism in this time and place. The church had very little if any role in politics. It was a colonial time, but those colonies and further colonization were not primarily religious anymore. The universities were not primarily run by or associated with the church. Lower level schools were hugely varied, but increasingly state organized and run, and most people didn't get much formal schooling.

Again, I would invite anyone interested to do even the most casual research into widely available histories of the 18th c. Heck, just do a little reading in Wikipedia at least. Indeed, the beginning of the 17th c and the turn of the 18th c are a whole world apart in terms of social organization and worldviews.

Wheres the info about game focusing only on europe and caribean? Thats a pity.

And again you are speaking about europe and meaning six of the most western countries of it. mediterranean, eastern and northern european countries had somewhat different status at that time, as well as the south america. I dont know that much about north american history, so you might have a point there... I will try to check it.

Btw. Education offered to common man, if there was any, was pretty much organized by church in most parts of the world, even long into the 19th century and it still is in some places.

First link about 18th century religious history in google:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel02.html

Speaks somewhat strongly against your writings, but then again its only the congress library, I dont know if thats considered as reliable source of information?

[Tom Pullings]

:-)

 

That's the problem with Google, particularly if you search with "religion" as a keyword.  What you link is an exhibition at the Library of Congress, curated by those with a particular interest in presenting a particular view of the founding of America that aligns with contemporary fundamentalist narratives about it.  While the exhibition items themselves are historical artifacts, they have been assembled and framed to tell a very particular and deeply invested story.  What is conspicuously absent in the exhibition is the vast array of historical evidence to the contrary of their framing.  Nice try, though.  

 

And I didn't say try google, I said try Wikipedia.  It was the second entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_18th_century. That article provides a much more balanced view.  Or actual history texts would work, too.  They are written by the "scholars" vaguely referenced in the LoC exhibition, and almost always provide detailed sources for their evidence and conclusions.  

 

But, this has gone far enough. This is not the place to teach a class in religious or European history.  Those who want to believe that the time period of the game was somehow deeply religious are going to believe that.  I still contend that arguing for including religion in the game on the grounds of its central importance in the time period and part of the world modeled is anachronistic, and that arguments for including it only on those grounds, and not in terms of how it would enhance gameplay, are misguided and not likely to produce good results.

 

Those are my last words on the subject (which I'm sure is a notification likely to please just about everyone!).  :-)   I entered the conversation to offer some expertise that might speak to some common misconceptions, but the conversation has made me very tired now.  

[SirWili]

:-)

 

That's the problem with Google, particularly if you search with "religion" as a keyword.  What you link is an exhibition at the Library of Congress, curated by those with a particular interest in presenting a particular view of the founding of America that aligns with contemporary fundamentalist narratives about it.  While the exhibition items themselves are historical artifacts, they have been assembled and framed to tell a very particular and deeply invested story.  What is conspicuously absent in the exhibition is the vast array of historical evidence to the contrary of their framing.  Nice try, though.  

 

And I didn't say try google, I said try Wikipedia.  It was the second entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_18th_century. That article provides a much more balanced view.  Or actual history texts would work, too.  They are written by the "scholars" vaguely referenced in the LoC exhibition, and almost always provide detailed sources for their evidence and conclusions.  

 

But, this has gone far enough. This is not the place to teach a class in religious or European history.  Those who want to believe that the time period of the game was somehow deeply religious are going to believe that.  I still contend that arguing for including religion in the game on the grounds of its central importance in the time period and part of the world modeled is anachronistic, and that arguments for including it only on those grounds, and not in terms of how it would enhance gameplay, are misguided and not likely to produce good results.

 

Those are my last words on the subject (which I'm sure is a notification likely to please just about everyone!).  :-)   I entered the conversation to offer some expertise that might speak to some common misconceptions, but the conversation has made me very tired now.

I agree that we disagree, but it seems that you are looking the aspect of faith and religion in much narrower perspective. While I'm talking about the world, rural areas and pretty much everything outside the going to be usa, england, spain, portugal, france, benelux countries and germany. It seems that you would like to consentrate on them and the capital cities. Fair enough, its your right, but please try not to over generalize.