Cannon Production Overview and Calculator

[JollyRoger1516]

As the title says Jud and me (SaltyRoger1516 is my Global account) have created a little overview for the cannon production in terms of costs and requirements. This should help sell them for fair prices/recognising scams. The table shows the crafting requirements for said 10x productions (mortars have their 1x and 68lbs Carronades have a line for 10x and 1x) and each cannon type has a per cannon production cost for those wanting to sell/buy them.

The spreadsheet also includes a calculator with which you can calculate upcoming production costs/requirements. Only the green spaces are editable (or they should be the only ones^^)! Bear in mind that while you can set any number of cannons production on most of them can only be done in sets of ten.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-TjUkdMdklYubcIb_kuiGqLWkgBAT4QT08BErNj16g8/edit#gid=1151416251

Enjoy, we will try to keep it up to date and should any problems arise gimme a shout either in this or via PM!

Cheers

Jolly/Salty and Jud

Edited June 4, 2017 by JollyRoger1516

[Remus]

Very nice.

A couple of comments:

• Labour hours doesn't include harvesting resources or making charcoal, it is only for the gun blueprint
• The Cost Totals, Iron, Coal and Charcoal requirements on the right are misleading if you are crafting, as you cannot craft in 12s or whatever. But I can see cost totals for odd numbers being useful for pricing a bundle of guns being sold to another playe..

Charcoal of course you can only make 500 at a time (14.6k gold for the oak logs), but this is outside the scope of the spreadsheet.

[JollyRoger1516]

1 hour ago, Remus said:

Very nice.

A couple of comments:

• Labour hours doesn't include harvesting resources or making charcoal, it is only for the gun blueprint
• The Cost Totals, Iron, Coal and Charcoal requirements on the right are misleading if you are crafting, as you cannot craft in 12s or whatever. But I can see cost totals for odd numbers being useful for pricing a bundle of guns being sold to another playe..

Charcoal of course you can only make 500 at a time (14.6k gold for the oak logs), but this is outside the scope of the spreadsheet.

Thank you.

1. Aye it is only for the cannon itself. As resources may be obtained in diffrent ways it would be hard to account for that so only the guarenteed hours are noted.
2. Exactly. Its meant to help you know the roughly expectable costs when outfitting ships. the 10 steps can just be used as well.
3. That is noted in the resource list.

[Captiva]

Fantastic. Thanks!

[Arthur Peckington]

Neat.

[Kloothommel]

I've been using a similar list:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HQppSblyk7A6X4iTPawopVEtHHujHwUlp94BTa8Gct8/edit?usp=sharing

Edited June 4, 2017 by Cornelis Tromp

[Krumpf]

You have absolutely no value for labor in any of those equations and since crafters are restricted by limited hours they do have value!  There is labor in extracting the resources from the production buildings, labor in processing the oak into charcoal, and labor in crafting the cannons themselves.  I have a formula that I use for crafting and a markup policy that may not give the best profit but definitely does not gouge my customers.  

For reference on the cost per labor hour, on PVP1-EU in the US it was common practice for aspiring crafters to sell their labor hours to assemble components for the seasoned crafters at 100g per labor hour.  Also, a crafting note gives 500 labor hours and is 50,000g to craft. 

Don't even get me started on amortizing the costs of the workshop and various production buildings needed to be self-sufficient and the time it takes to gather the resources from outposts, the initial smuggling runs to get coal from a Spanish player and occasionally a Pirate and the way extra costs that went along with that.  

I can appreciate your time and effort and the intent of putting this information out there but players need to realize there is more to crafting costs than just materials.  What I fear happening is players using your chart to brow-beat cannon crafters by saying for example that your chart says a widget costs 500 gold to make so I want to buy it for 510 gold and not a gold piece more!

In my business life I had a simple philosophy, "You can shear a sheep over and over but you can only kill it once" or make a small profit with a customer many times or gouge him once and lose him.  

 

Labor is valued at 100g per labor hour

Coal is 43g per unit  (Mine gives 8 coal for 240g plus 1 labor hour.     240+100=340/8=42.5)

Iron is 73g per unit (Mine gives 8 iron for 480g plus 1 labor hour.  480+100=580/8=72.5)

Oak is 98g per unit (Forest gives 4 oak for 292 plus 1 labor hour.  292+100=392/4=98)

Charcoal is 42g per unit (500 charcoal needs 200 oak logs plus 13 labor hours.  (200x98) plus (13x100) / 500 = 41.8)

So...

6pd Longs are 140 iron and 30 coal plus 35 labor hours for 10 cannons. 

That's (140x73) + (30x43) + (35x100) / 10 or 10,220 + 1,290 + 3,500 / 10 = 1,501

My base production cost of 6pd Long is 1,501g  and my selling price is 2,064g (rounding in my spreadsheet) each after marking up the cost of only the resources by 50%

Edited June 4, 2017 by Krumpf

[JollyRoger1516]

11 minutes ago, Krumpf said:

Labor is valued at 100g per labor hour

True-ish. Sadly for a standardized spreadsheet this cannot be fully included. LH are being perceived of different values and are of different value depending on the crafters xp. Also captured resources could allow soembody to produce heavily under price so this spreadsheet is limited to the clearly defineable standards.

I have added a note to the spreadsheet to warn people to expect slightly higher prices as crafters also cover their LH and shipping expenses. Nonetheless this should give a good grip on what expenses to expect or what to bring to at least cover a crafters work.

[Remus]

8 hours ago, Krumpf said:

6pd Longs are 140 iron and 30 coal plus 35 labor hours for 10 cannons. 

That's (140x73) + (30x43) + (35x100) / 10 or 10,220 + 1,290 + 3,500 / 10 = 1,501

My base production cost of 6pd Long is 1,501g  and my selling price is 2,064g (rounding in my spreadsheet) each after marking up the cost of only the resources by 50%

I use 100/LH myself in these current cash-starved times, so I was nodding with your every statement till the last. If you are charging for labour hours, why do you also charge mark up on materials cost? Set an LH rate for the profit you wish to make (100/LH means 100k profit per day) and leave it at that..

My sell price for 6lb longs is 1590, the extra 89 covering the listing fees.

As I say, I use 100/LH for the current economy. If gold becomes more plentiful I may charge more. If labour hour generation increases I may charge less. If LH generation increases but building output does not, I will probably also charge for building hours as these will become a limiting factor (1 level 1 iron ore mine makes 991 in 24 hours, which is 41.3 per hour, meaning 41.3 iron ore takes 1 'building hour' to produce). But percentage mark ups on cost in a game like this make no sense to me, they are too arbitrary.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Remus

[Remus]

7 hours ago, JollyRoger1516 said:

True-ish. Sadly for a standardized spreadsheet this cannot be fully included. LH are being perceived of different values and are of different value depending on the crafters xp. Also captured resources could allow soembody to produce heavily under price so this spreadsheet is limited to the clearly defineable standards.

You can, by including harvesting and charcoal labour hours as well.

Those of us who price by LH use it for everything - everything craftable at least. You might see oak logs on sale at 90 and think they are too expensive (the harvesting cost is 73). I look at them and buy, because each oak log incorporates 0.25 LH, meaning I price them at 98.

[JollyRoger1516]

I may add a LH claculator. It would be an additional thing as the main calculator is meant for the base production cost!

It would allow you to type in the amount of LH used and simply multiply them by 100. You'd have to add it up yourself then still. People should ahve no trouble of doing the x100 on their own but I guess for convinience it can be done.

Screw and ignore this!!!

Edited June 5, 2017 by JollyRoger1516

[JollyRoger1516]

Ignore what I wrote above. @Remus How about...

to each calculator I add a LH extraction field (effectively iron and coal divided by 8 (bit more complicated for charcoal)), a field for LH total (adds those to the cannon LH), a field that multiplies the final LH by 100 and a grand total field that adds that LH cost to the production cost.

Pricing for 1 Labour Hour would be set at 100 - if people wish to run special prices I may add an option for that later on.

Does that sound good? (might take a bit to introduce as I suck at math (formulas are Juds work )

Edited June 5, 2017 by JollyRoger1516

[Pugwasch]

Just  a suggestion but the question over LH cost could be addrressed by having a drop down box with the cost to you of LH i.e. 65,000g / 500hours.  That would factor in the cost of LH if bought from an outside source. And since your own generated LH are worth the same it would be a far accurate way of costing cannons individually/groups.  Just a suggestion!!

[Remus]

9 hours ago, JollyRoger1516 said:

Ignore what I wrote above. @Remus How about...

to each calculator I add a LH extraction field (effectively iron and coal divided by 8 (bit more complicated for charcoal)), a field for LH total (adds those to the cannon LH), a field that multiplies the final LH by 100 and a grand total field that adds that LH cost to the production cost.

Pricing for 1 Labour Hour would be set at 100 - if people wish to run special prices I may add an option for that later on.

Does that sound good? (might take a bit to introduce as I suck at math (formulas are Juds work )

Since you are only dealing with three ingredients, you may as well use fixed LH for each (iron ore is 0.125, coal is 0.125, charcoal is 0.126) rather than calculate them from the blueprints. Multiply each of these by the iron, coal and charcoal requirements you have already calculated.

As you say, you add all the ingredient LHs to the cannon LH you already have.

I would add another green cell like the cannon count for users to type in their own LH rate.

Multiply the total LH by the LH rate, and add this to the money cost to give a sale price (or wahtever you want to call it)

The formulas aren't difficult - PM me if you like. I reckon the hardest part is working out a layout that makes the spreadsheet easy to use and read.

[JollyRoger1516]

Alrighty the calculator for Labour hours has been configured but we won't get around to implementing it before Friday. Should be all nice and shiny then^^

Edited June 7, 2017 by JollyRoger1516

[JollyRoger1516]

@Krumpf and @Remus - the new calculator has been implemented. You can even change the price of the labour hours to whatever you intend to charge. Afterwards it will configure a grand total as well as the resource cost and the labour hour cost.

let me know what you think.