Supply and Demand. Addressing economy issues

[Koltes]

I invite you to be open minded when you read this.
This post is not to bring old argument of how many duras the ships should have, but is a simple discussion of the economy facts that sooner or later we will have to face. Just being realistic looking towards not so distant future.
So it goes.

For the economy to work there MUST be an interaction between TWO major factors.

The DEMAND and the SUPPLY. Its not rocket science. It is what it is and if we want this game to have ANY decent economy this MUST be done right.

In the simplified form:
Supply comes from the ability to produce. Right now we can produce anything we like (except non-craftable items) and at any rate we like. This means there is unstoppable supply of everything (well, again except of the items that cant be produced).

Demand is a value that comes from Consumption vs Supply rate. If your consumption is higher than the supply, then you have a demand for the product and the prices going up.
If there is plenty of supply, then the price goes down and the stuff is consumed in larger numbers to the point of Supply not being able to keep up with the demand or simply switches to other products that are in demand, which makes prices to go up again.

Here is the problem with the current economy setting.
We can craft anything and in any numbers. To the point that we don't need to craft anything until we need it. Because its easy. Because crafting today too many ships means that it likely will be a waste later when the new patch comes out, much like we had in October. So, the supply is easy and no problem.

What about the demand? For the economy to work, anything produced needs to be consumed to avoid overflowed market.
(!) Again - anything and everything must be consumed.
More duras on the ships means less Consumption of the ships. You dont sink your ship straight away. You sink it few times before you need another ship.

+1 extra dura on a ship reduces the consumption and respectively the demand by 100%.
Now let it settle for a little bit.... Let this info sink in.

Businesses struggle when demand drops (which means turnover drops too) by 15%. They close down if demand drops by 30%.
Here we have 100% drop of demand just because of +1 dura.

5 duras on the ship means its a 400% reduction of the demand of that ship.

If the supply would have struggled much more to keep up, the relation between supply and demand would have been more or less balanced, however people would be even more reluctant to sail their ships and engage in fighting, which is also a bad thing. Right? Yes in the current state when you have your Gold ships so much OP to their own counterpart of lesser quality this will be the case. It basically means that until there are no other usable ships in the game but the gold ships, this issue will prevail.

Today we have too much of artificial mechanics that fights game issues. For example, to make conquest a more lengthy process the timers are added.
In the proper economy setting when each PB means loosing assets, loosing ships, to the point that it may cost the clan an arm and leg the process would have been slowed down naturally by the game economy.

Some will say but this will reduce people's will to fight altogether!
In the current state yes. But if ships become more expendable and the lower quality is much much more usable and much more cheaper at the same time this would never be an issue.
In other words organized matches like PB's or large fleet on fleet fights would require best ships to participate.
To take out PBs clan would have to bring Gold ships of best quality, which would naturally reduce the conquest as we know it. However having green ships that cost much less, but still a very competitive will make people to accept challenges of PVP easier in the opportunistic OW because all they loosing is just a green ship.

I myself would sail a green ship if would cost me 20,000 gold in comparison to 2,000,000 gold for the same gold ship, IF the green ship would have been a competition to the gold one.

This gives people a choice to fight in much cheaper ships and still be competitive, hence promoting PVP.

1 dura on all ships means there is Consumption in the economy.
Number of ships should NOT be determined by available slots in the port. You should be able to store countless number of ships IF you can afford to pay docking rent for each one.
As I said everything needs to be consumable or cost. Teleporting, sailing out in OW to keep the crew happy, buying ammo, fixing ships etc etc. This is the only way to make the trader profession meaningful.

The biggest argument that people have against 1 duras is non recoverable upgrades, which is totally fair and totally make no sense not being able to craft them.

So, to summaries the conclusions here:
1. Everything needs to be craftable by players so if you lose your 1 dura ship and the gold marines they are still craftable and recoverable;
2. Everything needs to be consumed and paid for;
3. We need huge price point of difference between different quality ships and less characteristic differences between them, so lesser quality being much less expensive, become more competitive, while expendable;
4. The economy needs to become global so traders will do business between nations. Trade hubs introduced etc

After this is achieved there will be no issues to stabilize the game economy. In fact the economy will help you to sort out lack of PVP and even the content.

Thank you for your attention

Edited March 8, 2017 by koltes

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

I do not think changing the durability will fix the economy. It will fix it for a little bit but then it will revert back to the same economic situation we are at now but more than likely a different resources and similar demands. The inflation/hyperinflation is more than likely caused by a number of factors including the one you have stated. Factors such as imbalance Dr. Richard Bartle's Taxonomy and no non-player exchangeable currency that is only obtainable with gold (currency) would also contribute to the inflation we are now seeing as well just to name a few that I can see from a quick observation. A games economy one must also remember works differently from the real worlds. So it is more difficult to fix than a real world economy unless from external forces. 

 

PS: Again not saying 1 dura ships will not be a good solution to the economical issues. It should potentially work. Just saying that I only see it as a temporary solution and not a long term one. 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Davos Seasworth

[Wesreidau]

I agree with all the economic points with the exception of 1 dura ships. I believe similar materials and labor hours can be consumed as the repair bill for a permanent ship and not building replacements for 1 dura ships. Either system works to consume resources, but mine consumes them more conveniently for the player so they can get right back into it.

The rest of it I'm wanting to make sure you know I understand and have been trying to get as well. We're not disagreeing as much as you might think.

[Koltes]

2 hours ago, Wesreidau said:

I agree with all the economic points with the exception of 1 dura ships. I believe similar materials and labor hours can be consumed as the repair bill for a permanent ship and not building replacements for 1 dura ships. Either system works to consume resources, but mine consumes them more conveniently for the player so they can get right back into it.

The rest of it I'm wanting to make sure you know I understand and have been trying to get as well. We're not disagreeing as much as you might think.

I have replied to your post too
We almost on the same page... almost  

[Fenris]

And what about all those trading goods we  have? Kurland Oak? Fine Machinery? What would you do with those?

If you say "make everything craftable", then it would mean that all goods should be craftable? Cannons as well? Ammo?

 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Fenris

[Koltes]

18 hours ago, Fenris said:

And what about all those trading goods we  have? Kurland Oak? Fine Machinery? What would you do with those?

If you say "make everything craftable", then it would mean that all goods should be craftable? Cannons as well? Ammo?

 

Of course.

In proper game economy where you give low levels means to be competitive you have to create market levels. So lower level crafters will be able to engage low level market and be just as competitive as level 50 crafters in that market.

How do you create market levels? Different quality and variety of consumables.

Such consumables can be ammo and medkits of various quality. The cheap and nasty - grey color is bought for very little money from npc. Everything green and above crafted by players.

Devs wanted to intro cargo hold management. Managing your consumables, how much you take with you on a trip, what quality etc is all part of gameplay. Some will argue that high ranks players will only use gold quality ammo. No its not true. Due to high price they will carry some amount to give them edge in combat when needed, but generally will use cheapest possible. Just enough for the job. This gives variety of ammo used.

Even quality of powder is important. Higher quality gives more power and pen, but also heavier on the cannon. It overheats faster and have higher chances of cannon malfunction or even explosion.

Players will fiddle with their own load setups and prepare them in ports. 

There will be no need for artifitial goods so to speak. When you make economy global and intro trade hubs and allow players to create delivery contracts for others to accept and deliver you remove the need for so called "delivery economy" and npc trade goods

Edited March 15, 2017 by koltes

[Fenris]

10 hours ago, koltes said:

Of course.

In proper game economy where you give low levels means to be competitive you have to create market levels. So lower level crafters will be able to engage low level market and be just as competitive as level 50 crafters in that market.

How do you create market levels? Different quality and variety of consumables.

Such consumables can be ammo and medkits of various quality. The cheap and nasty - grey color is bought for very little money from npc. Everything green and above crafted by players.

Devs wanted to intro cargo hold management. Managing your consumables, how much you take with you on a trip, what quality etc is all part of gameplay. Some will argue that high ranks players will only use gold quality ammo. No its not true. Due to high price they will carry some amount to give them edge in combat when needed, but generally will use cheapest possible. Just enough for the job. This gives variety of ammo used.

Even quality of powder is important. Higher quality gives more power and pen, but also heavier on the cannon. It overheats faster and have higher chances of cannon malfunction or even explosion.

Players will fiddle with their own load setups and prepare then in ports. 

There will be no need for artifitial goods so to speak. When you make economy global and intro trade hubs and allow players to create delivery contracts for others to accept and deliver you remove the need for so called "delivery economy" and npc trade goods

I like that idea. It would make sense if each good we already have on market, would be craftable AND it would have a purpose. Idk, for example---Malabar Teak gives you more thickness/Stiffness, or Dutch Laudanum makes your crew recover faster/or having higher percentage when using medkits...

Or is that not so important?

Did you have only ship modules/ammo/materials in mind?