Remise

My vote goes to "Option Fair." Having said that, I would much rather see flags waving, preferably two per brigade (for Federals, this would be the national colors and a state flag, for most brigades), than icons. I will remind you that one of the most-disliked "features" of the CA games was their banners, and one of the most-liked features of DMUC, etc., was the realistic flags. I know this is more work for an artist, but the large esthetic boost you wil get might be worth it!

Working on it! Started a second day battle this morning, but now have to rush off to manage a fencing tournament.

Don't forget Gottfried's Brigades of Gettysburg, which will give you very good insights not only into the quality of the brigades themselves, and their previous history, but also of their commanders.

This comment is somewhat relevant to terrain, but also to gameplay and things you may not be able to change. Civil War officers and soldiers did not like street fighting, any more than soldiers today do. Back then, without the benefit of radios, and with a need to keep troops close together and in formation, it was impossible to control a regiment, much less a brigade, in urban combat. Although there was some fighting on the first day, as the Federals retreated through the town, you will note that for the most part, nobody made a stand there, and on the second and third days, other than some annoying sniper fire, the town was not that involved. This is significant, as you would have imagined that, if possible, Lee would have formed up his assault columns for the third day in the town, so they could, for example, make a rush at Cemetery Hill without being exposed to artillery fire. But this thought apparently never occurred to anybody, not because they were not smart enough, but because they realized the command and control issues this would present. Secondly, although in playing the second day test scenario it seems that Federal artillery is firing into the town (I could be wrong about this), in reality that would never have happened. Not only would the Federal artillerists never have fired upon friendly civilian dwellings, after Fredericksburg, when they had battered the Confederate town because of snipers, they were strongly condemned as barbaric for firing upon civilian homes, and I strongly suspect that there were, if not written, unwritten orders, against this. Finally -- and maybe I missed this -- is there a topic for general typos? In particular, I noticed that the name of the hero of Culp's Hill -- General George Greene -- is missing an "e" at the end.

Thanks for posting that video, and I agree. For the record, it was made by reenactors (whom I believe have some hopes of becoming professional film makers), and some of the guys who took part in that scenario told me it produced some of the most compelling moments they have ever experienced in our hobby. I was there for the event, but not that dawn battle, though I wish I had been. There were about 4,000 guys taking part. B.C. Milligan

Speaking of the entire Civil War, this is a rock upon which many good game designers have foundered. I think Gary Grigsby, for example, is a great game designer, but his Civil War game was virtually unplayable. AGEOD's, in my opinion, is the best, but it is still overly, and unnecessarily, complicated, and bizarre things happen. For example, a unit that is defeated (unless a recent fix has changed this) will retreat, not toward its own lines of supply, but deep into enemy territory, where it usually is destroyed. A smaller force can eviscerate a much larger one, when in the Civil War often the victor (as was the case with Lee at Chancellorsville, considered his greatest victory) will suffer as many as, or even more, casualties as the defeated army. All sorts of support units are necessary to make a division or corps effective, and though this is a nice touch, I also found it annoying. Finally, if the Union player waits till long -- against a competent Confederate commander -- to try, for example, to get across the Tennessee River, it is almost impossible. Having said all this, I still think theirs is the best strategy game of the ACW, with all sorts of political and strategic niceties that most other games lack, but there is a lot of room for improvement. My perfect game is one where the difficult decisions are all about strategy -- not figuring out the UI, or solving "puzzles" that will improve the fighting abilities of one's units. For a fantasy or sci-fi game this is fine. But not (my opinion, of course!) for an historical game.

Thanks -- I am hoping some others may find a few, too. Although we know that reenactments don't look like real Civil War battles, we also know that there is nothing that offers us a better idea. In the case of the units I fall in with, at least, as much as possible, the manual of arms, formations, drum and bugle calls, orders, etc., follow the manuals of the time. This is one reason I think some of these videos might be useful to the developers. Plus I have fun looking for them. B.C. Milligan

Here, somehow on YouTube in its entirety, is the movie "Gettysburg." It has many flaws, but it is still worth watching and does provide a fair, if not perfect, history of the battle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTcaRk0ZRJ4

Since "Units" is part of the header here, I would like to suggest that some customization of some of the better-known units might be a plus. For example, the Iron Brigade was known as "those damn Black Hat fellers" by the Confederates, and their black hats made them very recognizable. Similarly, if there are flags, the Irish Brigade would have had its on very distinctive one, besides the starry banner of the United States. And the Regulars would have worn not only a dark blue coat, but dark blue trousers as well. Here's what the Iron Brigade would have looked like -- maybe one of the developers can reply when he has time, to tell us what would be realistic, before I start posting videos of, say, the Louisiana Tiger Zouaves! This video has nothing to do with anything, save it is an Irish song by David Kincaid, who is also in my battalion, and the lead singer of a group called The Brandos. This particular song -- written by him -- has an interesting story attached to it:

Question about skirmishers -- typically, one or more companies from a battalion would be deployed as skirmishers, or on rare occasion, even an entire battalion (though it was very difficult to control such a unit). Are our skirmishers going to be completely separate units? I hope not, but have to ask. P.S. A small nomenclature bonus -- On the battlefield, units maneuvered as battalions. That same unit back in camp, however, would usually be known as a regiment, not a battalion. The explanation for this would take too long to write, as I want to play the game a bit before my wife wakes up from her nap, but I wll say that you can use as an analogy the concept -- if you have very large family -- of your family being just that, the Boutsikaris family for example, at home, but the First Minnesota Soccer Team on the field. B.C. Milligan

I think it was Mr. Fair who made the comment elsewhere that columns, etc., do not yet hold any formations. Civil War soldiers, though amateurs at the start (Von Moltke, when asked his opinion of our Civil War, said, "I am not interested in the clash of armed mobs," or something like that), drilled six hours a day, five or six days a week, when not in combat, and by the time they got to the battiefield, they were soldiers. Even under intense fire, troops would maintain their shoulder-to-shoulder formations if they could. It was imperative for a 19th century battalion to maintain its formation, as this was not only the sole way to keep any sort of organizational integrity, it was the only way to insure that every musket was able to fire effectively without hitting a friend. Here are some animations that, though created for reenactors, should give the developers a good idea of how a Civil War battalion would deploy from column into line on the field, among other things. What I would suggest, in the interests if making this game look "ultimate," is to assume that each of our brigades was broken down into 4-8 sub-units ("battalions") that, just as the brigades moved as battalions, would move as companies. This would give a very realistic look to battlefield maneuvers. I for one will never forget being at the 150th Antietam, when my own regiment field two 200-man battalions, and seeing our companies break out from column into line. That action alone was, to me, probably the most exciting moment of this entire battle, though there were over 12,000 of us and 100 cannon on the field. Here is the link -- "By company into line," among others, will be very useful, I hope: http://www.10thpa.com/drill1.shtml

Here are some simple, easy to understand diagrams indicating how a battalion changes formation on the battlefield. Have fun! Changing formation from Line of Battle: http://home.comcast.net/~scottwashburn/Line_of_Battle.pdf Changing formation from Marching by the Flank: http://home.comcast.net/~scottwashburn/Marching_by_the_Flank.pdf Changing formation from Column of Companies: http://home.comcast.net/~scottwashburn/Column_of_Companies.pdf Changing formation from Column of Divisions: http://home.comcast.net/~scottwashburn/Column_of_Divisions.pdf Bonus nomenclature note: During the Civil War, a "division" had two meanings. The one with which we are most familiar was a unit of 4,000-10,000 men or so which included two or more brigades. But at the lower level, a "division" was two companies that maneuvered together, usually under the orders of a captain.

I am not entirely sure how far the developers plan to go with animations and related things, as this is always the most time-consuming and expensive part of any game. Having said that, I am going to post some links to manuals of the time, etc., that might be helpful. I will start however, with a suggestion: Inasmuch as the brigades in the game are roughly the size of the average regiment at this time in the war, it might make sense to have a brigade maneuver using the same evolutions as a battalion. So, for example, it would march on roads and away from combat in a column of four, and deploy into two lines. As you already know, each Federal regiment always carried two flags -- one the national colors, and one a flag exclusive to that regiment. Confederate regiments had a bit more variety. Just as a suggestion, when in column of march, the color company would always be in the center of the column, not the lead, as some might think. When the battalion deployed into line of battle, it would remain there. If advancing, the colors would lead the line, but as soon as halted, the colors will always move to the rear, behind the firing line. Little touches such as this will be greatly appreciated by Civil War "nuts" (as a former company president once introduced me and my office mate!) such as myself. Here are some general rules regarding movement: 1) Whenever a unit stops moving, it goes to "Shoulder Arms." 2) Whenever a unit moves faster than normal (which the player will decide, or the AI), it goes to "Right Shoulder Shift." 3) Whenever a unit has been stopped for more than a minute or two, it goes to "Order Arms" and then, if still stationary to something called "In Place Rest," which pretty much means the men, while having to stay in line, can relax a bit. The rule is that they have to keep at least one foot in the line. Having started with that, here are some documents from the period, and the present, that might be useful to the team: The Official Records of the War of the Rebellion. Originally published in about 135 volumes, you can now read it online. These documents include every report filed by every key officer in every action of the war. It would be impossible, probably, just to wade through the documents on the Gettysburg campaign, but there are a lot of gems here: http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/m/moawar//waro.html Some nice detail on the manual of arms; http://www.122ndnewyork.com/manual/manual.html A great artillery reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_artillery_in_the_American_Civil_War The Handbook of Artillery. A gold mine of information about artillery, published in 1863, whose intended audience was Federal artillerymen: http://www.civilwarartillery.com/books/RobertsHandBookofArtillery.htm#P2s8FieldGB The admittedly lengthy excerpt below is, to me, incredibly useful for game designers, and especially for developing rules for how the AI should deploy and use its batteries: Rules for Artillery (from The Roberts Handbook of Artillery, 1863) 17. Where should a battery be placed before the commencement of an action? As much as possible under cover, by taking ad­vantage of banks, hollow-ways, buildings, woods, &e. 18. Is it advisable to move a battery at once into action in the field? No; but if unavoidable, it should be masked as much as possible until ordered to open its fire. 19. How should a battery lie masked? It practicable, by covering it with cavalry, in preference to infantry, as the former does it more effectually, and is sooner moved out of the way. 20. In commencing an action, how should the fire of a battery be directed? When the enemy is in line, the fire should be directed over the whole line, and not upon the real points of attack; but when in column, ready to advance, it should be concentrated upon the real points of attack. 21. How should batteries be placed in relation to the troops with which they are acting? Upon the flanks of a line, but at such a distance as not to impede its movements, and at the same time to be unfettered in their own; the artillery may thus represent the faces of a bastion, and the line of troops the curtain. 22. Is the front of a line of troops an advan­tageous position for a field-battery? On the contrary, it is the worst possible, as offering a double object to the enemy’s fire, and greatly obstructing the movements of the troops; while a position in rear is nearly as bad, as the fire might seriously injure, or at learnt, greatly disquiet them. 23. In supporting an attack, what precautions are necessary? The battery should be carefully kept clear of the Intended line of march of our own troops, and such points occupied as may afford the greatest annoyance to the enemy. 24. How should batteries be disposed with regard to the enemy’s troops? Generally so as to secure a cross fire on his position, and on all the ground over which he moves to the attack, endeavoring to take him at all times In the direction of his greatest dimensions; that is, obliquely or in flank when in line, and in front when formed in columns. Moderate heights, command­ing as much as possible the surrounding country, should always be taken advantage of, but not such as may prevent operations in advance if required. 25. Is it imperatively necessary to confine posi­tions for field-batteries to the flanks of a line? When, from particular circumstances, the front of the army is too extended, and unavoidably di­vided into two lines, it may become necessary to place one or more batteries in the centre, if those on the flanks are unable to sweep the whole front; but great care must be taken not to impede the advance or retreat of the troops when required. 28. Should the fire of field-batteries be carried on at the same uniform rate? Certainly not; the destruction of the enemy being the object, it follows that at distant ranges, a greater degree of care is required in pointing the suns; the fire is slow and steady, and increasing in rapidity as the enemy advances, without how­ever impairing its precision. 27. Should the fire of field-batteries be carried on in salvoes or otherwise ? Never in salvoes; but in a regular manner, well sustained, and with distinct intervals between every round, commencing slowly, and increasing in rapidity as the range diminishes. 28. Is the fire of batteries more efficacious when dispersed than when concentrated? The effects of the fire will be in proportion to the number of guns brought together, and therefore, in order to strike a decisive blow, this should at once be done. 29. What projectiles are used with field guns? Solid shot, spherical case, and canister. 30. At what distance from the enemy should the several kinds of projectiles be employed with field battery pieces? Solid shot from 350 yards and upwards; spherical case from 600 up to 1000 yards, although It may be used within the first range; and canister within 350 yards, or up to 400 against extended formations. 31. What number of rounds can be fired from a field gun in one minute? Two solid shot or spherical case, or three of canister. 32. Why are more rounds of canister fired in a minute than of solid shot or spherical case! Because the latter are fired at greater distances than canister, and require the piece to be carefully shined, thus requiring more time. 33. What is the smallest number of guns that may with safety be employed in the face of an enemy? Never less than two, in order to secure a con­tinuous fire and mutual support. 34. Is the practice of employing field-batteries against those of the enemy recommended? Only under peculiar circumstances; as for in­stance, when his troops are well covered and his guns exposed, or their fire very destructive. Their fire should be directed principally against columns of attack, and masses, or upon positions which are intended to be carried. 85. In what time could a battery come into action into action in the field? It could come into action and fire one round in 26 seconds, timing from the order “action front,” to the discharge of one piece. 38. Suppose cavalry to be advancing to attack infantry, and first observed at the distance of a mile, passing over the first half mile at a trot; the next quarter of a mile at the maneuvering gallop, and the remaining distance at an increased gallop, terminating with the charge; occupying altogether about six minutes: during the last 1500 yards of their advance how many rounds per piece might a battery fire in that time! Eleven rounds with effect, thus: From 1500 to 650 yards . . . . . . . . 8’ 32”—spherical-case.. .7 “ 650 to 350 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0’ 48”—solid shot . . . . . 2 “ 350 to close quarters.... . . 0’ 84”—canister . . . . . . 2 37. What number of rounds could a battery fire against infantry, supposing them to pass over 1500 yards in about 16 ¼ minutes! Thirty-six rounds with effect, viz.: From 1500 to 650....quick step...9’ 45”—spher. case 19 “ 650 to 350 “ 8’ 50”—sold shot . . . . . 7 “ 350 to 100 “ 2’ 5”—canister . . . 8 “ 100 to close, quarters. double quick and the charge. } 0’ 40” - can. 2 38. Should the enemy attempt to force the pas­sage of a river, what is the best position for artillery to oppose it? Wherever the best cross fire can be obtained order to obstruct and harass him as much as possible; and if he has succeeded in passing over portion, of his troops, it should be directed against their formation. 39.When the enemy is making the passage of a river in retreat, where should your guns be posted In such a position as to bear upon the batteries that cover the retreat, and also upon his bridges. 40. In forcing the passage of a river what is most advantageous position for artillery? The bridge being generally laid in a re-entering angle, batteries should be posted on each side of bridge, and far enough from it to secure a cross-fire on the opposite bank. 41. Should the indiscriminate expenditure of am­munition be permitted in the field during action? Upon no account; ammunition should at all times be carefully husbanded, particularly at the commencement of an action, as the want of it at the close may decide the fate of the day; it should also be sparingly used in skirmishes and minor affairs, especially when at a distance from supplies, or in anticipation of a general action. 42. When should the reserve be employed? When a particular point of the line requires additional support, a favorable position is to be seized, an impression has been made on the line by the enemy, a forward or retrograde movement is in contemplation, or when a determined attack is to be made on him, then the reserve should came up and take part in the action; and it is of the utmost importance that this should be done as expeditiously as circumstances will permit. 48. Where should the reserve be placed previous to an engagement? In rear with the second line, out of the range of shot, and as little exposed as circumstances will admit, but always in such a position as to have ready access to the front or rear. 44. Should guns be lightly abandoned before an enemy? Never until the VERY LAST EXTREMITY. An artillery-man must never forget that his gun is his proper ARM; that here lies his strength; that here is his post of honor and of duty; also, that the LAST DISCHARGES are always THE MOST DESTRUCTIVE, and MAY POSSIBLY INSURE THE SAFETY OF THE WHOLE ARMY, OR TURN THE TIDE OF VICTORY IN THEIR FAVOR. 45. What is the position for cavalry when placed in support of a battery? On its flank, about the distance of 100 yards, and as much concealed as possible.

Here's some Civil War mood music, that I am sure will help you get ready to play the game, or do research: http://warbetweenthestatesradio.com/

Since music most needed is bugle calls, here are some examples of that. In particular -- for infantry, "Advance," "Halt," and "Retreat" are key. This guy is German, not American, and his style could be better, but he has the calls down pretty well: P.S. I do know a couple of very good buglers (one is in the U.S. Air Force Band and also leads this band and perhaps one of them might be cajoled to provide us with some bugle calls. Here they are, doing a slightly more cheerful tune! B.C. Milligan Private for Life

Here is one of my alltime favorite videos, though it has nothing to do with Gettysburg. There's something about a dawn battle. As I like to say about my hobby, the bullets aren't real -- but the adrenaline is:

This has little relevance to the game, but if you want to hear some expert drumming, dig this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUTPHsBNato Here's the same group, in a somewhat more conventional mode:

Since the subject of Stuart came up elsewhere, here is a nice tune from the Second South Carolina String Band, written by one of Stuart's troopers:

A nice post. I guess we could say that Lee's retreat from Gettysburg -- which certainly had its heroic moments -- was as much a victory as was Napoleon's campaign in France in 1814. The final result was still a strategic defeat, but at the operational level, each outfought its much stronger foe. I agree as well that Vicksburg -- which cost the South access to much of its raw material, plus the loss of an entire army -- was a more important event. It is my personal belief that had Lee withdrawn after the second day at Gettysburg, which some of his generals urged him to do, and essentially declared victory and taken his loot home, that the battle might, indeed, have gone into the annals of history as a Confederate victory. I haven't perused the thread on the scope of this game yet, but if this does become a strategic game of the entire campaign, that might be an interested concept, i.e., what to call it if Lee marches into Pennsylvania, smacks the Army of the Potomac around and hurts it, and then marches back to Virginia. B.C. Milligan

And just for the record, while I think the effects of lack of ammunition must be modeled, I agree with Mr. Woodchuck that this does not necessarily mean that the player should have to be involved in this, unless players can actually take the role of a brigade commander. At that level, ammunition would be a consideration. At a higher level, it would be more likely that the player would just have to know that an individual brigade was played out, whether this be because of lack of ammunition, casualties, fatigue, morale, or -- most likely -- a combination of some or all of these factors. The question that I would always ask myself, were I one of the designers of this game, is what decisions were typically made by the commanding officer at any particular level. When I was involved in my own -- never published -- Gettysburg game, which was going to be 3-D and allow players to to watch the game in first person, we agreed that IF a player were to place himself at this level of play, while he was there, he would have no access to either the mini-map or whatever we were going to call it, nor to messages or other information that would normally only be seen by division, corps, or the army commander. B.C. Milligan

Finally, the Confederate army on the march at Gettysburg -- ignore the muskets slung downward; you would never do that with a loaded black powder weapon:

Lee's army marching to battle: Note that whenever infantry halts while marching, they immediately bring their pieces down to the position of "Shoulder Arms," from what is usually called "Right Shoulder Shift." I have plenty more of advice on this subject, if solicited! My Federal battalion -- the National Regiment -- coming onto the field at an event two years ago (closest to the camera). I offer this video mostly to show what happens when a regiment halts in combat; i.e., the colors immediately retire to the rear of the firing line, as do the officers. Also, there is plenty of smoke, but this is an area in which the Darth team excels already! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdL61q4aeEg&feature=channel&list=UL

a rare video of artillery limbering their guns:

A nice, and somewhat unusual, aerial perspective of the Shiloh reenactment a couple of years ago. I like this video because -- without having actually seen the game yet -- I assume it somewhat resembles what gamers would see. The first battalion we watch is firing by company, a process similar to firing by gun, or section, in the artillery, in which every other company fires, while others remain loaded until the firing companies have reloaded themselves;

Here is a battery of guns in action. Note that, unless in dire situations, typically one gun of each section of two would fire, while the other would not. In this way, half the guns would always be loaded, should the battery suddenly come under attack. By the way, a great way -- developers -- to find out not only how the guns really looked when they fired, but also how they sounded is to Google N-SSA skirmish and watch some of those videos. Both infantry and artillery (and cavalry, now that I think of it) reenactors generallyt use about half as much powder per round as would be used for live firing, and the difference in sound is very obvious: