Proposal : Scrap Exp All Together

[ZeroEmpires]

Hey Guys!

 

I am making this thread to see what you think about this idea, hear me out because it makes a lot of sense when you think this through!

 

This is supposed to be open world, so why not open the possibilities? Instead of the crew being limited by rank, let the crew be limited by the money you have to recruit them and let the size of the ship you can sail be limited by the cost of running it and what the player can afford. This will greatly increase the emphasis on economy, trading, pillaging and then the driving force behind the game is GOLD! Much more like real life  

 

You should be able to hire crew like mercenaries, each crewman costs gold to hire. Every time you set sail you need to provision your men with supplies else their morale will drop and they may leave your crew, or they may fight poorly. Repairs on the ship should come from the economy, not by buying the kits from an infinite supply. If you want to repair your fir ship, then you should have fir planks on board for the carpenters to patch it with. The cannonballs you fire should be produced by the player economy, and a finite supply.

 

This also adds an interesting dynamic because it allows players to rise to glory, but also fall back when times get hard. Let's say you make it to a big ship but things go wrong and you can't turn a profit... you probably need to down-size and try again. More skilled players are more likely to succeed in whatever it is they are doing, and so instead of players skill being defined by their rank.. it's defined by how good they actually are in the game.

 

As an example: You've been playing in your basic cutter (which crew and supplies are always free) and you've managed to turn a decent profit completing missions. You've seen some larger ships for sale and have saved enough money to buy it. With the larger ship you hope comes larger profits! However you have a small problem, you've ran out of gold and can't afford to fully crew the ship since hiring more mercenaries is too expensive for you right now. You can either sail under-crewed or you could go back out in your cutter for another mission until you can afford the new crew. Finally you save enough gold to get the remaining crew and set off, things go well and after sinking some traders you're turning a handsome profit. You're thinking what to do next, should you invest money in more upgrades for your ship or can you up-size again? Perhaps you just cant quite afford a better ship yet, so you continue on.

Eventually you're able to save for a Santi, but boy is it hard to turn a profit in that thing. The upkeep is huge and there's rarely large enough targets to aim for, so more often than not you'll take out something smaller unless the time is right and the Santi is called for in a huge port attack or similar.

 

Do you see how this play-style is not about grinding exp for the next level, but it's about generating money. A skilled player will be skilled at generating money and therefore progress faster and be able to turn a profit on the bigger ships more easily. A lesser player could be a higher rank than the skilled player in the current state of the game, and the skilled player has to be limited by an arbitrary skill measure  that doesn't really show the skill of the player, but is more of a limiter to how fast the player can progress. 

 

In short, players should be limited by how effective they are at turning a profit on the high seas, be it via trading, completing missions, pillaging, blockading ports or managing crafting. Money makes the world go around!

 

What do you think?

Edited February 1, 2016 by ZeroEmpires

[ZeroEmpires]

I should add that a leveling system or passive exp system could be in place. But my main point is that I think EXP shouldn't be a limitation when players have more than enough gold but nothing to spend it on.

['Sharpe]

You have to consider that "turning a profit on the high seas" may be your idea of a successful player, but it is not everyone's. I do not play this game to trade or become an economic mogul or explore the high seas, I play it to fight in my country's Navy as an officer. If we had a class system I would surely choose "officer" class, rather than Trader or Explorer or Pirate class. As such, XP generated from combat seems to fit this for me and others like me.

If there were other "classes" it would certainly be interesting to entertain XP gained by other means, and you put forward a good idea - but until the game makes the leap towards classes (developers have sadly shown no inclination in doing so), the current XP system actually is a perfect fit for many players.

Also keep in mind: rank restricts you in nothing other than amount of crew. You can sail any ship in the game on your first day playing. And if you think about it, XP from damage makes sense in this regard. If more XP means more crew, would it be logical that XP should be accrued in any way other than combat? In the 18th/19th century, if you're a skilled trader, will that cause more men to want to serve under your command in battle? Unlikely. But if you've proven yourself in combat (aka, XP gained through combat exactly as we have now) acquiring more crew as a result makes more logical sense.

Edited February 1, 2016 by 'Sharpe

[SyberSmoke]

I am some one that dislikes a single level based experience system, something this game is using.  The problem with levels is there is no tuning and at the end of the day it is limiting...you limit progress, you limit endgame, Once you get to the top...what is the point.

 

That said I do not think an economic system would also be the best.  Since it forces the player to focus on a single goal...money.  Do I have enough gold to buy shot, powder, replacement crew, better crew, repairs, provisions.  It is messy and a lot of mental overhead that is not needed in a game.  I mean that is why ships like this had Quartermasters...It was their job to balance the books so other could get shot.

 

My personal proclivity would be an experience system treating you as a character.  You gain experience in a core set of skills (Gunnery, Navigation, Command, Buisness [Crafting], and so on.  Keep it simple and to the point.  If you fight more, you increase your skills in those areas.  If you trade a lot, may be you get better offers and deals from ports, things only you can see (say by slipping the ports quarter master or a warehouse manager some gold coin).

 

Then you toss crew skill and officer skills.  Crews could be green to elite in rank...more of one, better you do.  Officers could be specialized to accent your own skills...so hiring a crack navigator lets you get closer to the wind and more speed.  There are many ways to do it with out resorting to a single playstyle mentality.

[ZeroEmpires]

I feel like something has to change regarding EXP right now. I've spent many many hours capturing traders in my snow and trading back to PR, but since I reached rank 3 I only gained 480 exp! I feel like I'm forced to do missions or to take part in battles more in order to level up, even though there's countless other things to do in the game that don't reward exp. 

I hope you can understand my point and how this ties in to the main post.

[jpjchris]

I too feel like having so many parts of the game locked to an XP grind are discouraging - especially considering that this game has so much potential to set itself apart from all the other countless MMOs that follow the same "XP Grind-For-Content-Access" model.

 

As others have mentioned in this thread, I also believe that the only restriction to do anything in this game should be monetary - if adjusted properly, it would make the community mirror exactly that of the historical Caribbean. Trade routes would become much more heavily traveled as Merchanting would mean so much more, and in turn actual PVP piracy and privateering (not just doing as much damage as possible and sinking for XP) would become a much greater focus due to currency then being the primary restriction for upgrading one's ship.

 

The sooner this XP-dictated model and replaced with a currency-dictated model, the sooner we'll see more attempts at boarding and capture (which is much more exciting and true to the historical Caribbean) rather than the same old endless "I'm fighting you to sink you because I need XP".

Edited February 4, 2016 by jpjchris

[Sharden]

I too feel like having so many parts of the game locked to an XP grind are discouraging - especially considering that this game has so much potential to set itself apart from all the other countless MMOs that follow the same "XP Grind-For-Content-Access" model.

 

As others have mentioned in this thread, I also believe that the only restriction to do anything in this game should be monetary - if adjusted properly, it would make the community mirror exactly that of the historical Caribbean. Trade routes would become much more heavily traveled as Merchanting would mean so much more, and in turn actual PVP piracy and privateering (not just doing as much damage as possible and sinking for XP) would become a much greater focus due to currency then being the primary restriction for upgrading one's ship.

 

The sooner this XP-dictated model and replaced with a currency-dictated model, the sooner we'll see more attempts at boarding and capture (which is much more exciting and true to the historical Caribbean) rather than the same old endless "I'm fighting you to sink you because I need XP".

 

so basically u propose too exchange a combat-focused xp-style (which u and other players dislike) with a money/trading/merchant xp-style (which I and other players will dislike)

 

where's the improvement there?

[Gioepyon]

i think the player as a character should not be limited by EXP or else, but for his skills. Of course, this call for a need to realism far beyond of what we have now. Captains at the time didn't handle the sails by themselves, they order others to do it. So, why are we pushing the buttons to raise/lower/ move the sails when this should be an order that we give to our crew? My point is that it shouldn't be the Captain/player to be limited by Exp, but the crew. the more exp your crew has, the more efficient they are. The more they do something, the more they are good at it.

 

Then there is the issue of how trader, explorer or warmongers get experience differently. My solution is simple and complex at the same time: Courage. everybody can learn how to sail, navigate, reload a weapon etc, but only the once accostumed to battle can do it under pressure (or under iron balls flying around). Courage can be one of the attributes crew members can have. It can be a natural attribute, or it can be "learned". A trader crew can be good at sailing and navigating and other stuff, but i think they would shit themselves as soon as the cannons start shooting, hence they become less efficient because they are not used to it. So, if a trader wants their crew to be efficient even when attacked, he needs to enter combat more often with his crew, or hire naturally courageous sailors. This can seem like warship captains have an advantage because they are always sailing and maneuvering and fighting and everything, but hey! people die in battle, so they need to refill their ranks more often AND his upvetted crew members have seen shit, so they require more rum as a result of PTSD.

 

captains should pay just once to hire crew members (just to not make it a burden), but everyone of this members is a single character. They have specializations (carpenters, gun especialist, medic, stuff like that, you name it), they can be trained (do you want more marines? hire one and make him train other sailors), they can be tempered in battle, and THEY CAN DIE. Also, to make it more challenging, i would suggest to pay for supplies everytime you sail for everyday you are out there. Ships shouldn't be sailing forever, they are not nuclear powered and space for food is limited.

 

i could go on but it is late and i don't want to write down a bible with no-one being interested in this path. if it gets support i could write more ideas.