There should be no Levels

[Deltrex]

68

I think the level mechanic is outdated and hinders the game rather than adds to it.

 

Rather than have levels that decide how much crew you can have make crew possible to hire in ports and cost upkeep.

 

With the current system there is almost no drawback to sailing a bigger ship once you have the level to fully crew it. With a crew hire system that also includes upkeep you would need to carefully think which ship to take in order to not hurt your bottom line. You would also have to rehire crew if you lose some, so crew will not automatically refill when you leave combat.

 

You would be able to get a small amount of crew for free (maybe 50?), just so you can still use small ships without problems. Players should never be in the position to not have at least some kind of ship.

 

This level free system together with a system that gets rid of fixed nation alignment in favour of a reputation system (you would still be aligned with a nation, but with some effort you could change the nation you work for or with less effort go pirate) could result in a game with smaller, more historical, ships in general use. Free crew could also be a reward for players who worked to get a name for themselves with their chosen nation and gotten a navy contract or a crown funded trading operation.

 

Pirate crew could work to be cheaper to hire, but be paid in parts of the loot or earnings, so a large pirate crew could cut very deep into your profits.

 

Ships would no longer have a fixed crew number, but rather a minimum crew to use the ship at all, a minimum crew to use the ship at full capacity, and a maximum crew amount that would fit on the ship. Example to the Cutter: Minimum Crew: 20 (12 on the cannons with only one battery at a time being loaded and 8 on the sails), Fully working: 33 or 51 (3 Guys per gun and one or both batteries at a time and 15 people on the sails), Maximum Crew: 60. Having more crew could allow you to activate multiple crew-focus-boni at a time.

[OlavDeng2]

The thing though is, when in history did a captain start off as a captain of a first rate? Admiral Nelson did not start off his career in the Victory, he worked up to it.

 

edit: to expand, a captain had to gain the rank and reputation before he comandeered a larger ship, if you dont have a limit we will have newbies who were given free shit sailing victories, now they would suck of course not having gained experiance, but my point still stands.

Edited January 12, 2016 by OlavDeng2

[Deltrex]

106

This really doesn't work in addition to the current system.

 

Just go the StarCitizen way: If you can afford the ship and the crew you can use it. This would, in my opinion, make for a more interesting game world, because in the current system everyone will eventually sail around in large frigates or even bigger ships. Those large ships should not be sailing around everywhere, but only deployed for a purpose.

[OlavDeng2]

 

106

This really doesn't work in addition to the current system.

 

Just go the StarCitizen way: If you can afford the ship and the crew you can use it. This would, in my opinion, make for a more interesting game world, because in the current system everyone will eventually sail around in large frigates or even bigger ships. Those large ships should not be sailing around everywhere, but only deployed for a purpose.

 

Lets be honest though, the larger ships(frigates, 4th rates, 3rd rates(especially this one)) where the work horses of the navies, also i belive we still should have to pay crew a salary and pay for provisions, but i dont believe in giving everyone access to the largest ships imidietly, you also didnt answer my thing regarding friends giving a person all the gold needed to sail a victory. Lastly, it does not make sense in the context of the admirality that we currently have in game and is planning to be expanded upon, again Admiral Nelson did not start of his career sailing the victory.

 

Ps. what is the meaning of the number on everyone of your posts?

[Deltrex]

The thing though is, when in history did a captain start off as a captain of a first rate? Admiral Nelson did not start off his career in the Victory, he worked up to it.

 

edit: to expand, a captain had to gain the rank and reputation before he comandeered a larger ship, if you dont have a limit we will have newbies who were given free shit sailing victories, now they would suck of course not having gained experiance, but my point still stands.

 

I don't think newbies sailing in large ships would be a serious problem. Large ships will still be sufficiently expensive to not be given to newbies in large numbers and the newbies would not be able to use their ships well enough to cover the running coast of such a large ship.

In fact with this system you would see a lot less large ships sailing around and they would only be used if a battle was planned because running a very large ship would be to expensive to just sail around in and not have a specific job where such a large ship is needed.

 

The normal player, who isn't given tons of free stuff by veterans with too much money, will also still have to rise through the ranks, but because he couldn't theoretically use a first rate, but because there will be no way for him to get one and operate it.

 

You could have given any cutter captain command of a first rate in real live, to the same detriment you will get when you give a first rate to a newbie player.

 

Edit: The number in my posts is random and created by something in my browser. It is a bug and I have no idea where it is coming from.

122

Edited January 12, 2016 by Deltrex

[OlavDeng2]

 

I don't think newbies sailing in large ships would be a serious problem. Large ships will still be sufficiently expensive to not be given to newbies in large numbers and the newbies would not be able to use their ships well enough to cover the running coast of such a large ship.

In fact with this system you would see a lot less large ships sailing around and they would only be used if a battle was planned because running a very large ship would be to expensive to just sail around in and not have a specific job where such a large ship is needed.

 

The normal player, who isn't given tons of free stuff by veterans with too much money, will also still have to rise through the ranks, but because he couldn't theoretically use a first rate, but because there will be no way for him to get one and operate it.

 

You could have given any cutter captain command of a first rate in real live, to the same detriment you will get when you give a first rate to a newbie player.

 

Edit: The number in my posts is random and created by something in my browser. It is a bug and I have no idea where it is coming from.

122

 

1. The devs are working on a system to help against the common use of first rates

 

2. well he has to earn the money, he find an exploit or a good trade rout or whatever he could within hours be in a first rate, again he wont be good at it or anythin but theoretically it is possible then, and then he wouldnt have gone through the ranks

 

3. Really? give me one case where it happened, give one case where some young captain essentially started off in a rated ship.

 

IMHO this suggestion gives no advantages and only disadvantages, as your suggestions goal is to limit the use of rated ships(which apart from first and maybe second rates, i disagree with essentially) it is kinda pointless as i allready stated, the devs are allready working on it, the removal of ranks is not the answer imho.

[Nathaniel]

The main problem is in such a system the large guilds will use their natural advantage in generatic funds to even more pass ahead of any solo captains. You would see firstrates even sooner if money becomes the sole criterion, wouldn't you?

[Deltrex]

There where very little rated ships in the Caribbean.

While the British navy (for example) had quite a few rated ships in their force by the late 18th century the great majority of them where stationed in Europe. If you take a trip around Jamaica in game you can sometimes see more rated ships than there would have been in the entire Caribbean.

 

Rated ships are boring because the lack of manoeuvrability leads to less sailing and just broadside combat. The whole idea of rated ships is fighting in a battle line, which is fun now and then but as a gameplay base it is boring.

197

[OlavDeng2]

 

There where very little rated ships in the Caribbean.

While the British navy (for example) had quite a few rated ships in their force by the late 18th century the great majority of them where stationed in Europe. If you take a trip around Jamaica in game you can sometimes see more rated ships than there would have been in the entire Caribbean.

 

Rated ships are boring because the lack of manoeuvrability leads to less sailing and just broadside combat. The whole idea of rated ships is fighting in a battle line, which is fun now and then but as a gameplay base it is boring.

197

 

1. well as long as there isnt a europe that argument is irelevant imho

 

2. I agree, there are too many however as i stated before the devs are working on systems to help against that, and again 6th rates and 5th rates and probably 4th rates, doubt they were rare in the caribean. 

 

3. everyone has his style of play.

[OlavDeng2]

No such thing as the "captain" of a cutter.

Captains are only seen in charge of rated vessels (and the exceptional "Post Ship", which was smaller than a 6th rate frigate, but at more than 20 guns was given to a post-captain).

You then have commanders of sloops of war (Usually brig or similar rigs, but can be anything) - or sometimes a lieutenant.

Below the sloops of war you have the unrated vessels, with cutter being the lowest of the commissioned vessels. These were always commanded by a lieutenant, who would be the sole commissioned officer.

In this context when i talk about captain i mean the person in command of the vessel whether he is a alcoholic lying half a sleep in his inflatable boat or the admiral commanding the flag ship of the fleet.

 

also from wikipedia: Captain and Chief officer are overlapping terms, formal or informal, for the commander of a military unit, the commander of a ship, airplane, spacecraft, or other vessel

 

Note that the rank captain, and the role of captain are not the same.

Edited January 12, 2016 by OlavDeng2

[Scorpio Shirica]

Any analogy to Star Citizen has to keep in mind they have very different systems as well. They have a relationship system and if you take something like a First Rate (i.e. Bengal Carrier) into a nation's space that isn't very trusting of you, then you can expect an armada to greet you in an unfriendly way. They also have a 90% NPC to player ratio.

 

You know how they removed AI fleets from players? Star Citizen is going in the opposing direction. 

 

This game requires levels as a core mechanic of its progression.

 

And I enjoy line fighting, so devs, please don't remove ships of line. <3 I love watching even 3rd rates trade blows with all the smoke, sound and splinters of wood going all over the place. No other game has that. 

[Deltrex]

Nobody wants to remove line ships. I just want them to only come out when an actual battle is expected and not be used as general purpose ships.

 

Also the StarCitizen mechanic would work pretty well in Naval Action. 9:1 Npc to player ratio can be easily achieved. The ratio just refers to total NPC versus total players, so with the current NPC swarm sailing around the world map we are almost there anyway. And why not have a reputation system rather than fixed nations from the start. You would just get a reputation bonus with the nation your character was born in and then take it from there. If the reputation system is fairly quick and harsh you would be almost fixed in your nation choice anyway and could only change it with a lot of effort (or you could easily go pirate but would have to work excruciatingly hard to be accepted as a lawful citizen after that).

236

The current fleet system isn't something I like anyway, but since player fleets got removed (good thing) npc need to sail alone more often, because right now it is extremely difficult to fight them unless you bring friends or pull friendly npc into the combat.

[Scorpio Shirica]

EH. The NPC's would have to be a lot more aggressive, do trade missions, etc. etc. You couldn't have 3rd rate NPC's sailing in front of capitals like they, else they'd just sink any newbie coming out of port. The analogy just doesn't work with how this game is designed and I very much like its design. I don't think the developer has infinite resources so would rather make suggestions that tweak existing systems instead of asking for new AI programming that may take another year or more of development. 

[Deltrex]

66

We already have pretty good battle AI, I don't think changing the AI behavior in the open world would take that long.

 

There shouldn't be all kinds of 3rd rates anyway so not seeing any 3rd rates on a normal day and only seeing them on special occasions or in special locations would make a lot of sense.

[Xoosch]

 

There where very little rated ships in the Caribbean.

While the British navy (for example) had quite a few rated ships in their force by the late 18th century the great majority of them where stationed in Europe. If you take a trip around Jamaica in game you can sometimes see more rated ships than there would have been in the entire Caribbean.

 

Rated ships are boring because the lack of manoeuvrability leads to less sailing and just broadside combat. The whole idea of rated ships is fighting in a battle line, which is fun now and then but as a gameplay base it is boring.

197

 

That's a really bad idea... i can see already how the big clans supply their 1 day old newbies with 1st Rates. What is the Goal in Game where you can have everything from day 1 as long as someone supplies you with enough money?

[Deltrex]

36

A game where you can have everything, but where it is hard to keep it, is a more endgame oriented game. By your logic (@Xoosch) there is basically no point in playing this game once you reach the maximum level.

 

Also it would be very difficult to keep a first rate ship running if you are using it often, so if you want to spend all your time in game farming money and give it to someone else, so that some newbie will be able to sail around in a Victory class just to prove that it is possible then fine, do that. It will not be game breaking however.

[OlavDeng2]

 

36

A game where you can have everything, but where it is hard to keep it, is a more endgame oriented game. By your logic (@Xoosch) there is basically no point in playing this game once you reach the maximum level.

 

Also it would be very difficult to keep a first rate ship running if you are using it often, so if you want to spend all your time in game farming money and give it to someone else, so that some newbie will be able to sail around in a Victory class just to prove that it is possible then fine, do that. It will not be game breaking however.

 

1 quy, recruits a bunch of frigates(which are reletavely cheap), he orders those guys, to bum rush all the people they see, this can be done in your proposed system

[Deltrex]

24

You would not only have to buy the frigates but also pay the crew.

 

Oh i forgot: In this system you would of cause not get magic gold for fighting battles. You would only get gold if you actually captured and looted the ships you attack or if you are paid by a third party for the sinking of the enemy. So running around and just killing people would cost you money instead of gaining you money.

[OlavDeng2]

 

24

You would not only have to buy the frigates but also pay the crew.

 

Oh i forgot: In this system you would of cause not get magic gold for fighting battles. You would only get gold if you actually captured and looted the ships you attack or if you are paid by a third party for the sinking of the enemy. So running around and just killing people would cost you money instead of gaining you money.

 

Well then that makes the system worse... imagine all of those hundreds of people not earning a single dime... and the select few running around in victories all the time because no one can beat them, and they get richer and more powerfull, the people who arent capable of capturing ships cant catch up...

 

the guy hiring the frigates... he is hiring them, that implies pay for crew and such, honestly i dont see any advantages to your system, only disadvantages.

[JJWolf]

Ranks are an important aspect to keep newbies out of rated ships, as the current system stands I am happy with it to fill in place of a long term solution. People can still sail any vessel undermanned but woe is to them who try to use a ship they lack experience and/or reputation for.

 

Introducing upkeep and provisions will require income, does that mean I can work my way up the ranks to be an Admiral and will be paid by the crown to upkeep a large rated vessel based on my rank in the Royal Navy? Or will I need to set up my global powerhouse economy first before I can afford to run anything worth taking into a PB?