Union at 2nd Bull Run -- Why can't I use all of my vangaurd corps on the 1st day?

[drhanson]

I downloaded the game from GOG a couple of weeks ago and am still going through my first campaign (colonel level, Union).  Everything went about as expected until I got to 2^nd Bull Run.   For my vanguard, I chose my 2^nd corps which consists of 20 brigades (4 divisions, 5 brigades per division).  After getting through the opening farm battle without any casualties (hunkered down in the corner until it was over), I got to the first day of the main battle – and discovered that I can only use 12 of the 20 brigades in my vanguard force.  The game limits me to no more than 6 brigades in each setup zone.  At first I thought this limit was imposed automatically by the game for balance, but then I found a YouTube video of 2^nd Bull Run in which the Union had the same Corps organization as I do (4 divisions, 5 brigades per division) and was able to use all 20 brigades (10 in each setup zone) at the start of the first day.  So it must be possible under the right conditions to deploy more than 12 brigades at the start of the 1^st day.  Why can’t I do it?  Is it because of something I did or failed to do?  I am currently up to Organization level 7, if that makes a difference.

[pandakraut]

I'm not certain, but the video you found might be from an older version of the game. As far as I recall you can only deploy 12 brigades at the spot you are referencing.

The remaining brigades may come in much much later as reinforcements, but most players just put a corps with 12 units into the vanguard slot and then put the rest of their units into other slots.

There are a few battles where the deployments are a bit odd but there are also some very detailed guides on the steam forums if you don't mind spoilers.

[LAVA]

If you want to max out Yankee unit participation the best you can do is put 3 divisions in 1st Corps, 3 divisions in 2nd Corps and 2 divisions in 3rd Corps.

There are a number of battles which were changed from over a year ago. So be careful which videos you watch.

[drhanson]

Many thanks to Lava and pandakraut for quick and very helpful replies.  I have a few followup questions:

1.  Lava said “If you want to max out Yankee unit participation the best you can do is put 3 divisions in 1st Corps, 3 divisions in 2nd Corps and 2 divisions in 3rd Corps.”  Does that mean that putting more than 3 divisions in each corps will actually reduce Yankee unit participation, or just that I’m only going to be able to use that many divisions in each corps no matter how many divisions are in each corps?  (I have seen a YouTube video in which someone says he was able to increase the number of his units he could use in a battle by changing how they were distributed among divisions and corps, but it was maddeningly devoid of details and I’ve found no other references to this subject.)

2.  Related to question # 1:  Going into day 1 of 2^nd BR, I have 2 corps of 4 divisions (20 brigades) each and a 3^rd corps with 3 divisions.  The two large corps have 2,200 to 2,500-man infantry brigades, most of which are 1- or 2-star level, plus 1 artillery per division and 2 cavalry and 1 skirmisher per corps.  The 3^rd corps consists of rookie units and its infantry brigades are only 1,000-man units so far.   What would be the optimum distribution of units among the three corps for this battle, since I now have too many units to allow me to limit my vanguard corps to only 12 units?  Should I just make sure that my best units make up the first 3 divisions in each corps?

 

3.  I have seen a few videos and several forum comments that claim it is possible for the Union to win 2^nd BR on the first day with an all-out infantry assault on a CSA flank, rolling up the CSA line and capturing the objective.  If an older version of the game used to allow 20 Union units on day 1 but now it only allows 12 units, is it still a viable option to try to win on day 1 with an all-out effort to turn a flank?  Or was that something that only made sense to attempt in an earlier version?

Thanks in advance to any useful information anyone can provide.

 

[LAVA]

1 hour ago, drhanson said:

1.  Lava said “If you want to max out Yankee unit participation the best you can do is put 3 divisions in 1st Corps, 3 divisions in 2nd Corps and 2 divisions in 3rd Corps.”  Does that mean that putting more than 3 divisions in each corps will actually reduce Yankee unit participation, or just that I’m only going to be able to use that many divisions in each corps no matter how many divisions are in each corps?  (I have seen a YouTube video in which someone says he was able to increase the number of his units he could use in a battle by changing how they were distributed among divisions and corps, but it was maddeningly devoid of details and I’ve found no other references to this subject.)

If you put more than 3 divisions in the first Corps, the 4th division will not show up for the battle. Essentially you have 2 principle Corps to attack with and they will only bring 3 divisions with them. The reinforcing Corps will only bring the first 2 divisions to the battle. That was a change to the battle set-up as long ago you could bring everyone you could muster and it was quite easy to outflank the Rebs with just the 1 Corps and win the battle.

1 hour ago, drhanson said:

3.  I have seen a few videos and several forum comments that claim it is possible for the Union to win 2^nd BR on the first day with an all-out infantry assault on a CSA flank, rolling up the CSA line and capturing the objective.  If an older version of the game used to allow 20 Union units on day 1 but now it only allows 12 units, is it still a viable option to try to win on day 1 with an all-out effort to turn a flank?  Or was that something that only made sense to attempt in an earlier version?

Yep, you can still win by outflanking the Rebs, but it is a much harder proposition as before you can take the main objective, the Rebs will receive reinforcements from the left side of the map... and thus you have to fight a duel front battle to do it.

Here is my video of 2nd Bull Run from my Legendary campaign (I think for maximum destruction I should have pushed harder on the Confederate reinforcements at the same time as I was moving against the objective):

 

[pandakraut]

1) Will have to leave the specifics to someone else as I'm travelling and can't check the numbers at the moment. 

In general for most battles filling up the listed corps and brigade slots results in fielding the most troops. However, In some multiday or longer battles certain slots arrive very late in the battle. So players will choose to either not fill those slots or put their worst units into them so they get all the units they want deployed earlier.

2) unless you are planning to use the rookie units to soak up fire just put them in your vanguard corps. Or you could create a 4th corps and just not deploy them at all.

3) This answer probably depends a bit on what difficulty you are playing. I've never tried it myself as I usually draw out the battle to get more kills, but it's likely still possible. I think the history guy did it recently on his no infantry colonel playthrough, though that's a bit of an unusual example.

[drhanson]

Thanks to both of you for very useful information.