Leaders Killed

[GRIT]

I seem to be losing  a lot of leaders. In a recent battle at Gaines' Mill I lost 6 leaders in just my 1st Corp including a General leading a Division. Is this normal, or is there something I should be doing to avoid so many leaders being killed? 

Thanks

 

[Shigemori]

Minimize your losses. Every time your unit takes a hit their is a chance that the commanding officer or its division commander is wounded or killed. The more losses the unit takes the bigger the chance. So the only tactic to minimize losses in your officer pool is to minimize losses at all. But even when your unit looses only one man and you are unlucky, this could be your officer.

[GRIT]

Thanks, I figured it was me and there wasn't much I could do-maybe learn to fight better. I hope it gets better as the units gain experience.

[Shigemori]

Perhaps you were very unlucky. One kill can be enough. Its probability. Was no officer wounded?

[A. P. Hill]

Attrition was a curse to both militaries, but more so for the South. With its limited resources, especially in manpower, every loss of a great leader added to the eventuality. 

Having read Douglass Southall Freeman's "Lee's Lieutenants", and comparing Stephen W. Sears' "Lincoln's Lieutenants", there appears to be a greater loss of high command positions with the South.

[Buford Protege]

I definitely agree with you Mr Hill.  Even you fell outside of Petersburg trying to valiantly rally your troops.

 

In many cases the South did take a much higher percentage of the officer casualties as noted by Lee's Lieutenants.  Many times it was officers doing just as A.P. Hill did, rallying troops on the defensive on the lines with the troops.  Or displayed conspicuously to try and rally their men, and then pop, a rifle takes his life.  Or their own troops did the shooting (see Jackson and Longstreet).

Many times the Union army was on the offensive so many officers stayed back to help try and coordinate efforts which may have led to fewer casualties.  Though it is just as likely that the officers who led from the front fell just as quickly as the Southern ones (Mr. Kearney riding right up to rebel troops in the rain)

Also, there were more instances of Confederate generals picked off by cannon balls from the superior Union artillery (see poor Mr. Polk). 

It would be interesting to see someone go through and assess how each general from each side was killed/wounded and what they were doing to see a deeper look into the question.

[GRIT]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:34 AM, Shigemori said:

Perhaps you were very unlucky. One kill can be enough. Its probability. Was no officer wounded?

There may have been some officers wounded and not killed. The General was killed for sure but I was not 100% familiar with the interface at the time to say for sure now that all the officers were killed and not just injured.

Thank You for the comments and help.

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by GRIT

[A. P. Hill]

On Saturday, September 09, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Buford Protege said:

Many times the Union army was on the offensive so many officers stayed back to help try and coordinate efforts which may have led to fewer casualties.  ...

If the most recent book I have read on the Union Army of the Potomac, "Lincoln's Lieutenants", by Stephen Sears, it appears that a goodly number of Union commanders were prone to hiding in a bottle behind the lines.

[Buford Protege]

On 9/11/2017 at 12:09 PM, A. P. Hill said:

If the most recent book I have read on the Union Army of the Potomac, "Lincoln's Lieutenants", by Stephen Sears, it appears that a goodly number of Union commanders were prone to hiding in a bottle behind the lines.

Quite correct unfortunately.  The Union kept politically backed generals who tended to hit the bottle heavily rather than make a mess politically.  

Daniel Tyler and Dixon Miles were both accused of drunkenness after just First Bull Run.  It would continue until the end of the war with commanders such as Edward Ferrero who would get his troops massacred in the Crater.

As Douglass Southall Freeman pointed out in Lee's Lieutenants, if a general crossed Lee or was too fond of the bottle or there issues he would be quickly transferred to less critical areas.  Some later returned out of necessity due to lack of competent officers, but most were left behind or sent to other commands who then struggled thanks to them.  John Magruder was sent to Texas after he couldn't leave Morphine alone after the Seven Day's battles.  Nathan Evans was sent to the Carolina's because of his affinity for the bottle and fighting commanders.  He would return as a brigade commander lat in the war.  It went through both sides.

[darktatka]

It's probability. I've just lost major general Burnside, veteran of many battles, who stayed with his brigade since they were formed, in attack column at Cold Harbor. His unit was third in the column and got one lone burst from long range cannon, which wasn't even directed at them. They were just peacefully marching. Damn those rebels, damn them to hell.

His unit continued to break through rebel lines and roll their left flank, with Superb Hancock and Geddes brigades.

RIP general Burnside. Your brigade will be always named in your honor.

[A. P. Hill]

19 hours ago, Buford Protege said:

Quite correct unfortunately.  ...

Agreed with the rest of your post, but you seemed to have missed two very prominent Union generals, not political, who were also charged with imbibing quite heavily.

Generals Grant and Sherman.  And yes there are arguments on both sides for and against these two gentlemen. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by A. P. Hill

[GRIT]

6 hours ago, A. P. Hill said:

Agreed with the rest of your post, but you seemed to have missed two very prominent Union generals, no political, who were also charged with imbibing quite heavily.

Generals Grant and Sherman.  And yes there are arguments on both sides for and against these two gentlemen. 

I've been known to imbibe when I play Ultimate General so that's two marks against my poor generals and officers.

[Meagre Heart]

 Though only somewhat related, you can replace your personally named general and make him a brigade or division commander instead of a Corp commander, where he can be wounded or killed. This doesn't have an impact on the campaign overall but is a somewhat entertaining event. 

Edited September 17, 2017 by Meagre Heart

[Marshall Davout]

I've done just that as there were more qualified generals available to lead the Corps

[Albert Sidney Johnston]

On 9/15/2017 at 1:44 AM, darktatka said:

It's probability. I've just lost major general Burnside, veteran of many battles, who stayed with his brigade since they were formed, in attack column at Cold Harbor. His unit was third in the column and got one lone burst from long range cannon, which wasn't even directed at them. They were just peacefully marching. Damn those rebels, damn them to hell.

His unit continued to break through rebel lines and roll their left flank, with Superb Hancock and Geddes brigades.

RIP general Burnside. Your brigade will be always named in your honor.

I had a general named Everett King, who commanded my very first infantry brigade. Over the war he was eventually promoted to Lieutenant General, and his brigade, the 1st Texas, became one of the finest fighting units in the whole war.  He fell at the gates of Washington, leading an assault on Fort Stevens.

Beside him fell General John Bell Hood, who commanded a division of green brigades through the whole war. His Mississippi Division was at the front of every battle, but he evaded death to the last. He fell defending Washington against a Union counter-attack.

The highest ranking brigadier officer to survive the slaughterhouse of Washington was Lieutenant General Lance Drake, who's cavaliers proved vital to victory at 1st Manassas, Gaines Mill, 2nd Manassas, and Malvern Hill. He was a brave officer who never shied from battle. At the end of the war, his 750-man melee cavalry unit was full-fledged three stars, though more then three hundred would fall defending Washington City.

Let us have a moment of silence for those brave officers that gave their lives for the independence of their homeland.

[JochenHeiden]

I started my first campaign as a colonel and I decided to move myself to a brigade, and then a division once I made brigadier general.  I was wounded at Shiloh and it was a stark reminder of the dangers of field command!  Fortunately I have recovered and am back at the helm of first division, but how long will it last?

[James Cornelius]

I still say that if your corps staff gets wiped out than the corps commander should be killed also - even if it's "your" avatar. Enough corps commanders were killed in the war to warrant it.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

8 hours ago, Sir R. Calder of Southwick said:

I still say that if your corps staff gets wiped out than the corps commander should be killed also - even if it's "your" avatar. Enough corps commanders were killed in the war to warrant it.

Agreed. If your personal general can die commanding a brigade or a division, a corps commander can go down too. Just ask A.S. Johnston at Shiloh. 

[A. P. Hill]

18 minutes ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

Agreed. If your personal general can die commanding a brigade or a division, a corps commander can go down too. Just ask A.S. Johnston at Shiloh. 

Ask Thomas Jonathan Jackson at Chancellorsville,  or, *gulp, sniff,* Ambrose Powell Hill at Five Forks.

Or John Fulton Reynolds at Gettysburg. 

 

[James Cornelius]

6 hours ago, A. P. Hill said:

Ask Thomas Jonathan Jackson at Chancellorsville,  or, *gulp, sniff,* Ambrose Powell Hill at Five Forks.

Or John Fulton Reynolds at Gettysburg. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

Agreed. If your personal general can die commanding a brigade or a division, a corps commander can go down too. Just ask A.S. Johnston at Shiloh. 

 

Or Jesse Reno at Fox's Gap, Joseph Mansfield at Antietam, or John Sedgwick at Spotsylvania...