Ship Knowledge - A Poll

[Guest]

Not much of a fan of it, since there's alot of entertainment in variation (today I want to hunt in a Surprise, tomorrow in a Renomme), and by the time I've got 4-5 slots on a ship I reckon I'll be sick of using it anyways.

[Koltes]

6 hours ago, ironhammer500 said:

The 1st slot really doesn't make sense, a Pavel is different to a Santisma so how would it give you the knowledge? Peronsally i think you should just get it unlocked for that ship type, IE Santi exp for Santis, Vic exp for Vics, 

So if it got 3 slots on a Santi, i only get 3 slots on Santis and id have to unlock them on a Vic again.

 

Makes more sense you learn that ship class/type rather then the Rates.

If you have to make sense of progression grind in the game...

In real life before you are allowed to sail cruise ship you will have to have some years of experiences in smaller vessels of the similar type and purpose. Like large ferry types.

In aviation before you are allowed to commercial airlines you must spend so many hours on smaller planes.

Even as a bus driver or truck driver you must train on smaller vehicle.

Same is here. And yes sailing St Pavel and opening 1st slot on 1st rate makes perfect sense. Same sails, large size vessel, rudder, guns, very large crew that is looking up to you as their captain, no?

The slot is not something abstractive. Its a knowledge and you receive this knowledge by practicing on smaller ships.

 

Regardless of what makes sense or not people dont want to grind the whole tree of ship like it is a lobby session game. We are not playing WOT here. Its not just about having a fair session game that you can play on any ship. We literrally "live" on our boats. We use them to hunt, defend waters, trade or escort traders. In other words we use ships of our choice to achieve goals in the game such as conquer territories, expanding personal and clans wealth etc. Current ship tree progression is locking me to grind and waste my time to grind only for the sake of opening ships slot while I cant work towards achieving my set above goals in the game.

On the other hand I understand that devs want us to work on opening knowledge on ships. Their other task is to bring more smaller rates to OW. My proposition actually means more grind on the ship. It cost more. And brings more smaller ships on the water. Yet is more pleasurable for a player because gives him freedom of choice.

When did freedom of choice in a sandbox title has become not a thing?

[Random]

I like the idea of such a system, but I think that it can use some work. I would suggest creating categories of fore and aft ships, brigs and so on. A ship from each category can gain xp for that category, but a certain amount of xp in lower category is required to sail higher category ship. I would also propose creating tiers of upgrades and letting players decide if they want to learn a new upgrade or upgrade the knowledge of an old one. For example, I can learn a low level version of Pellew's sights and have some xp to spare, or I can upgrade my pumps to the next level. The "grind" element is still there to keep people playing, but it opens up opportunities to specialize without having to achieve max levels.

[Archaos]

3 hours ago, koltes said:

If you have to make sense of progression grind in the game...

In real life before you are allowed to sail cruise ship you will have to have some years of experiences in smaller vessels of the similar type and purpose. Like large ferry types.

In aviation before you are allowed to commercial airlines you must spend so many hours on smaller planes.

Even as a bus driver or truck driver you must train on smaller vehicle.

Same is here. And yes sailing St Pavel and opening 1st slot on 1st rate makes perfect sense. Same sails, large size vessel, rudder, guns, very large crew that is looking up to you as their captain, no?

The slot is not something abstractive. Its a knowledge and you receive this knowledge by practicing on smaller ships.

As a seafarer and qualified ships Captain I will have to correct you here. There are many people that have only sailed on one type of vessel and have risen from being cadets on that type of vessel to being Captains. There is no requirement to have sailed on smaller vessels first, in fact some smaller vessels require more specialist knowledge than a large cruise liner or super tanker.

So if you use the real world parallel then you should get experience from sailing the class of ship and not having to grind through other classes to get the experience on the one you want.

[Koltes]

51 minutes ago, Archaos said:

As a seafarer and qualified ships Captain I will have to correct you here. There are many people that have only sailed on one type of vessel and have risen from being cadets on that type of vessel to being Captains. There is no requirement to have sailed on smaller vessels first, in fact some smaller vessels require more specialist knowledge than a large cruise liner or super tanker.

So if you use the real world parallel then you should get experience from sailing the class of ship and not having to grind through other classes to get the experience on the one you want.

I used this as general example, because he wanted to apply real life logic to his argument, which I did. Coming back to 18th century I think I'm pretty safe to say that captains who were assigned to sail 1st rate ships were experienced captains who had already sailed and showed their competence sailing lower class ships prior their new assignment.

The current grinding system makes no historical or real life sense at all.

My system is an attempt to marry up the end results that devs want to achieve (i.e. lots of usage of lower class ships, lots of grinding and high cost of higher class vessels, thus giving more player generated content to the OW) and what players want (i.e. ability to sail ships of their choice while doing the above).

Real life concerns is a separate issue that really have little relevance on the game mechanics

As for seafarer qualification this might be different country to country. In New Zealand for example before you can get a job as a ship master you must show: "experience in a ship's officer position on a vessel that is above a defined size or weight"
Yes you can get certified as a ship master of the vessel, but being certified and getting the actual job is a different thing.  Getting ship master job without sufficient experience in NZ on commercial vessel is unheard of.

Edit:
I have reread your post and you pretty much said the same thing I think

Edited June 16, 2017 by koltes

[Archaos]

7 minutes ago, koltes said:

I used this as general example, because he wanted to apply real life logic to his argument, which I did. Coming back to 18th century I think I'm pretty safe to say that captains who were assigned to sail 1st rate ships were experienced captains who had already sailed and showed their competence sailing lower class ships prior their new assignment.

The current grinding system makes no historical or real life sense at all.

My system is an attempt to marry up the end results that devs want to achieve (i.e. lots of usage of lower class ships, lots of grinding and high cost of higher class vessels, thus giving more player generated content to the OW) and what players want (i.e. ability to sail ships of their choice while doing the above).

Real life concerns is a separate issue that really have little relevance on the game mechanics

The thing is that you used a modern day example to justify your argument and you were wrong in that, which is why I pointed it out.

I do not know what it was like in the 18th century, but I am sure there must be some examples of officers rising through the ranks and becoming captains having spent majority of their time onboard lineships. I do not believe there was a dedicated path to becoming a 1st rate captain.

But putting all that aside I agree that this is a game and the devs can set it up any way they wish. Its just that people keep returning to use real world examples to justify their arguments, but if they do that they should at least get the real world argument correct.

[Slamz]

On 6/14/2017 at 5:04 AM, admin said:

we are thinking about moving the requirements from 3rd unlock to 4th
 

That would be nice, really.

One thing I keep telling people to do is just sail what you want and then casually go back and level up what you need but they do hit the cap relatively quickly on the higher tier ship.

Moving the pre-req unlock slot back one would let them go for longer, at least, before making the pre-req become mandatory.

Even if it was the 5th slot, people would still want to do it eventually but makes it less critical the further back you push it.

[Digital Wind]

The current tree locks people into grinding certain ships.  There needs to be more OR options.  I don't want to grin a Pavel & Buc & Vic & Ocean to unlock slor 3 on a Santi.

How about unlocking all 5 slots on 1 ship of each rate to unlock the 3rd of the next higher rate?

Much more option, much more flexibility, much more diversity and players can play with their favorite toys instead of having to resign themselves to a ship they just don't like.  For example, I hate the Cerb, but I need to get it to slot 3, i'd rather spend my time grinding the Reno with its beautiful colors and art to 5 then look at that ugly pile of ship muscles.

But I don't have that choice, I gotta grind it and a dozen other ships, most of which I will never sail after the grind.

Devs, what was the point?

tldr; unlock 5 slots on any 7th rate to release the 3rd on every 6th.  Unlock all 5 on any 6th rate to release the 3rd on the 5th rates.  Unlock all 5 on a 5th rate to release the 3rd on the 4th rates.....unlock all 5 on any 2nd rate and release the 3rd slot on any 1st rates.  Simple, flexible, players still have to grind, but only on the ships they like/will actually sail.