Inconsistent Timers, Objectives, and the need for Save Scumming

[Wright29]

I've noticed a lot of inconsistency with final objectives, timers, and victory conditions. I've grouped the possible states as follows (and I probably missed some): 

1. Preemptive endings- if an objective is captured/lost and that timer expires, the mission/day ends even if there is time left on the main clock. 
2. Normal Timer with held objectives- the mission ends immediately when the main timer hits zero. No contested objectives. 
3. Contested Objective- the mission ends immediately when the timer hits zero. If there are contested objectives, the player does not get the benefit of having captured these objectives. 
4. Finish button with objectives determining end- there's a finish button and when the last objective timer runs out, the mission is over. 
5. Finish button with unlimited time- There's a finish button and the player can keep playing until some arbitrary time/ darkness falls. 

My point is that it is not clear at all which will apply for any given final objective. Sometimes the intro will tell you outright what will cause an immediate defeat. But most often, you need to experiment via Save Scumming. During big battles, I find myself saving every fifteen minutes or so just because I'm afraid of some dumb insta-defeat thing happening. Rogue skirmishers and cavalry at Malvern Hill, Gaines' Mill, 2nd Bull Run, Gettysburg, etc can lead to situations where I'll lose if an objective is lost for 20 minutes even if I'm destroying the enemy on the other end of the map. So I Save Scum so that I don't have to do the whole battle over again. 

I DO understand that the devs have this in place to balance certain scenarios and I don't mind that there are different conditions. What I would like is to know about it beforehand or for there to be some kind of marker/ notification on what will cause the missions to end in either victory or defeat before the main timer runs out. Also if there will be a Finish button, as that will drastically change how I aggressive I must be. 

[Koro]

Option 3 shouldn't exist. Report with f11 if you have battled that end with contester timers.

[Andre Bolkonsky]

7 hours ago, Wright29 said:

I've noticed a lot of inconsistency with final objectives, timers, and victory conditions. I've grouped the possible states as follows (and I probably missed some): 

1. Preemptive endings- if an objective is captured/lost and that timer expires, the mission/day ends even if there is time left on the main clock. 
2. Normal Timer with held objectives- the mission ends immediately when the main timer hits zero. No contested objectives. 
3. Contested Objective- the mission ends immediately when the timer hits zero. If there are contested objectives, the player does not get the benefit of having captured these objectives. 
4. Finish button with objectives determining end- there's a finish button and when the last objective timer runs out, the mission is over. 
5. Finish button with unlimited time- There's a finish button and the player can keep playing until some arbitrary time/ darkness falls. 

My point is that it is not clear at all which will apply for any given final objective. Sometimes the intro will tell you outright what will cause an immediate defeat. But most often, you need to experiment via Save Scumming. During big battles, I find myself saving every fifteen minutes or so just because I'm afraid of some dumb insta-defeat thing happening. Rogue skirmishers and cavalry at Malvern Hill, Gaines' Mill, 2nd Bull Run, Gettysburg, etc can lead to situations where I'll lose if an objective is lost for 20 minutes even if I'm destroying the enemy on the other end of the map. So I Save Scum so that I don't have to do the whole battle over again. 

I DO understand that the devs have this in place to balance certain scenarios and I don't mind that there are different conditions. What I would like is to know about it beforehand or for there to be some kind of marker/ notification on what will cause the missions to end in either victory or defeat before the main timer runs out. Also if there will be a Finish button, as that will drastically change how I aggressive I must be. 

I tend to agree. But it is the nature of the beast. I do not think it will, or can, be changed and made completely  uniform at this point. 

[Slobodan]

3 hours ago, Koro said:

Option 3 shouldn't exist. Report with f11 if you have battled that end with contester timers.

Will do it next time but one battle comes to mind immediately: Chickamauga 1st day: lost the battle even that my last VP (the one furtherst down of map) was only had 2 min to finish being contested (talk about bummer )

 

[Koro]

7 hours ago, Slobodan said:

Will do it next time but one battle comes to mind immediately: Chickamauga 1st day: lost the battle even that my last VP (the one furtherst down of map) was only had 2 min to finish being contested (talk about bummer )

 

Damn, that sucks :). 

[Wright29]

11 hours ago, Slobodan said:

Will do it next time but one battle comes to mind immediately: Chickamauga 1st day: lost the battle even that my last VP (the one furtherst down of map) was only had 2 min to finish being contested (talk about bummer )

 

This is the exact scenario that made me think of the third case that Koro is referencing. Had to redo the whole mission because I was trying to take my merry time with it. 

[Aetius]

17 hours ago, Andre Bolkonsky said:

I tend to agree. But it is the nature of the beast. I do not think it will, or can, be changed and made completely  uniform at this point. 

I think this is one of the key things that needs to be fixed before the full release. The victory conditions and timers need to be correct, complete, and explicit. To do otherwise is arbitrarily unfair to the player, and will make people angry - not everyone has a lot of time to replay battles to figure out how to actually win them.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Aetius

[A. P. Hill]

1 hour ago, Aetius said:

I think this is one of the key things that needs to be fixed before the full release. The victory conditions and timers need to be correct, complete, and explicit. To do otherwise is arbitrarily unfair to the player, and will make people angry - not everyone has a lot of time to replay battles to figure out to actually win them.

I agree!

All battles should have similar timing and ending scenarios as well as over time play etc.