Brigand

February 13, 2015

One thing that seems to be overlooked in this threat is that, in case of a collision, the rigging of both ships got tangled up. There is more than enough evidence of this in battle reports and admiralty discharges.

Let's look at an examples, featuring a Cutter and the 74-gun ship Bellona (yes, it is a lot of text, just read it):

A Cutter passes too close in front of the bow of a Bellona. The cutter's head sail rigging meets with the Bellona's martingale- and bob-stay which are there to keep the bowsprit and jib boom supported. This creates an awful lot of ropes chafing against each other and possibly getting tangled up a bit. Then the (top) mast and yards of the cutter meet the bowsprit and jib boom of the Bellona. Something will break now. The top mast of the Cutter is the weakest length of wood in this equation and will snap first, no matter what. The fore staysail, jib, topsail, topsail yards and all the attached rigging throws itself down. The Bellona's jib boom is probably the next thing to break, bringing with it the the fore staysail, jib, flying jib and all the attached rigging. All this breaking of wood will make sure the cutter will lose a lot of its forward momentum and the Bellona's bow will be pushed off course a bit, but not all that much. After this collision proper, the two vessels are well and truly entangled. There is no way they are going to separate just by themselves at this point: all involved rigging needs to be cut loose, and it better happen quick! The cutter is now stuck in front of the Bellona's bow, while the Bellona is still moving forward, in other words, the cutter will be run over and almost inevitably be beyond saving, although she can't really sink yet, because she is still roped to the rigging of the Bellona. The Bellona is now in risk of loosing her fore top and top gallant masts, after all: there is a cutter pulling on it with all its desperate might! A frantic whacking at all the lines and ropes involved can save the Bellona's fore top and top gallant masts, but it is going to be a race to make it happen.

So, in the case of a cutter passing too close in front of the bow of a Bellona, the outcome would be: the cutter will almost surely sink. The Bellona almost surely loses her jib boom (but most likely still has her bowsprit) and is in serious danger of loosing her fore top and top gallant mast (but not her fore mast itself) and has an awful lot of ropes and pieces of wood flying through the air, which need to be cut loose in order to be able to continue participating in the battle at hand.

And this is why no captain in his right mind would ever risk a collision, safe as an act of desperate martyrdom.

Cheers,

Brigand

February 12, 2015

What is this? have u made these?

These ships have been in alpha testing as an April fools joke. Don't worry, we sank them.

~Brigand

February 12, 2015

Surprise was a corvette, but listed as a 28-gun frigate and a sixth-rate after 1798 bye the RN after capture.

Constitution had nominally just 44-guns and would have been a fifth-rate in RN.

After 1817, when RN included carronades in the counting, she would have been fourth-rate, but never a third-rate.

and

Cerberus has already been added to the game

Thanks, updated.

~Brigand

February 12, 2015

Cheers. The Brigs we have now miss the aft sail if memory serves me right. The War Brig could feature it as well ??? but not sure if the configuration was common use in all navies.

As far as I know, the brig not often set their main course. It was deemed unpractical by many captains as it did little to increase sailing capacities and added a lot of work.

The snow on the other hand usually did fly a main course. For us 21st century folks, the snow and the brig look closely related, while, in fact, they are not. The brig came about by gradually decreasing the size of the brigantine's main sail up to the point where they added a second spar to the main mast (a brigantine has only a single spar on her main mast which is why here main mast is sometimes referred to as a 'schooner mast').

The snow on the other hand is much older and is, in essence, the same as a three masted ship; she was a common type in the Baltic Sea. Her mizzen mast has gradually become smaller and moved closer to her main mast, up to the point where it became a try-sail mast. Trivia: 'snow' is an English transliteration of the Dutch word 'Snauw', which come from 'snavel schip'. This refers to their characteristic sharp bows: 'snavel' means 'beak' in English.

(I love two masted vessels)

Cheers,

Brigand

February 12, 2015

The picture below is from one named 'Voador' and was classified as a brigantine ( bergantim ).

Was captured by the French and re-classified as a corvette.

I guess 24 guns is quite a complement for a upgraded brig ( this model featured 20 of 12 and 4 of 6 )

Maybe we see it in the future.

You may also have a 3 mast schooner, became quite widespread for fast supply traders, especially for us with Port and Madeira wine which can spoil fast at sea, so speed was of essence.

The first image you link is, by our definition, a brig. This is because her main sail is the course on the main mast (whereas on a brigantine the main sail is the fore-and-aft gaff sail).

As for 3-masted schooners, I think (not sure) that they only became into their own after the time period the game is set in; in the age of the clipper ships.

Cheers,

Brigand

February 12, 2015

I would not change the current brig because people don't like it. If we go that way, there is no end to the buff this, nerve that discussion. The brig as it is is a viable option, even more so when the open world will be around.

Yet, I do think there should be a brigantine in the game. In fact, I've been lobbying for a Brigantine since December 2013. Initially, admin said it will be included. Later he mentioned that it has been postponed till some unknown time in the future.

Anyhow, my guess is that all development time for the foreseeable future is taken up by the open world.

Cheers,

Brigand

February 12, 2015

It's L'Unité.

Updated

Shouldn't the snow have to be called simply "snow"? IIRC our Snow is based on the Ontario, but sooner or later the real Ontario will be included in the game

Updated, in compromise (I think it is useful to preserve the information that the in-game snow is based on the HMS Ontario

List of ship types:

http://www.thepirateking.com/ships/ship_types.htm

All 1-4 rates should be Man of War type I believe.

I know the website, it is not the most informed information so to say.

A 'Man of War' was a general (laymen) term to describe a war ship. The term is mostly associated with the 17th century.

Cheers,

Brigand

February 12, 2015

Thanks,

But it's La RenomméE

Thanks, updated. (I honestly just copied the name from some post by admin)

Any other errors in the data?

~Brigand

February 12, 2015

Thought it would be nice to gather the ever growing list of ships into a nice spreadsheet. If you spot any errors, please let me know (I intent on keeping this up-to-date).

Note:

Historic broadside weight listed in English pounds, converted from national units of weight:

Cheers,

Brigand

February 11, 2015

- Fire on the uproll -

by Charles Caldwell - SLVF RN

This is really nice!

Some constructive feedback: the only thing looking a bit 'off' is the look/colour of the gun-flames. I think I'm influenced by a previous screenshot.

Edit: looking a bit more at it, I think it would be better if the cannon balls flew in a bit of an arc, instead of a straight line.

Cheers,

Brigand

February 11, 2015

I completely disagree with that. 1800-1900 is more like "age of steam" than "age of sail".

You're mistaking a commonly accepted definition for an opinion here. If your notion term doesn't fit with the commonly accepted one, I can't help you, nor do I see the point of arguing about it.

~Brigand

February 11, 2015

By 'casual gamer' I tend to refer to those gamers who like to play games designed for ease of gameplay, with a shallow or no learning curve and a high instant gratification level.

~Brigand

February 11, 2015

Rhe regular golden age should have been an better focud the the napolionic wars mutch more ships and they where looking awsome that time frame.

The Golden Age of Sail is generally agreed to be the period in the 19th century: 1800 till 1900.

So either you want clippers up to steam ships or you have the name of the era wrong

~Brigand

February 11, 2015

The sails of the yacht are only enough to push itself at maybe 10 kts (exaggerated ingame, the yacht is too small to be so fast, it would only be considered fast in light winds when big ships lose most of their speed). If the sails can only move 100 tons at 10kts then moving the 2200 ton Con it will reach only about 0.5kts. 2 yachts = 1kt. Maybe. If they do not get in each others way.

The maximum speed of a sailing ship is mostly determined by its length at the water line. No matter how much sail you put onto it, it will not go faster than the the maximum hull-speed, which is determined (almost completely) by its length.

On the flip side, you can put not enough canvas on your ship and, as a result, not reach your theoretic maximum.

Also, the 'tonnage' of ships in the age of sail is tons burthen, not to be confused with displacement, a notion that was introduced much later.

So, while it is certainly true that a brig or yacht is lacking the mass and energy to smash a large ship aside, they should definately be able to push it off course, by simply continuing to push against it, but it won't be fast.

Cheers,

Brigand

February 11, 2015

To put some numbers to this discussion:

74-Gun ship (1794)
	Bow sprit        : 35.0 inches (diameter)
	Jib boom         : 14.5 inches (diameter)
	
Merchant Brig of 150 tons (1794)
	Main mast        : 16.5 inches (diameter)
	Main top         : 10.0 inches (diameter)
	Main top gallant :  5.5 inches (diameter)

(source)

Cheers,

Brigand

February 11, 2015

no, a new era is a specific setting with specific content. I rather have one era with indepth content than two or more eras with lacking content, because someone wanted to be Jack Sparrow. This is not a pirate game, please keep that in mind. The engine screams large scale naval combat and not merchant-sacking by fast, little ships.

If you want a pirate game, go play one of the many games out there or wait a little longer, but this game will not do a 180° turn just for you to live some romantic, unrealistic expectation of Long John Silver.

TL;DR: rather focus on one era and get it right, gameplay and content wise, new eras are possible down the road, but not prior to 2.x version

I don't see any reason to drag the 'pirate' issue into this topic, it has proven to be quite toxic and there is not need to contaminate this thread. There can be lots of other reasons why people would like to sail earlier (or later) ships.

I would love to sail some earlier ships, but the game is shaping up just fine in a time period where those older ships would look out of place. Since I would rather see the game be really in-depth on one period, instead of being more shallow in two settings, I would say: to bad for those lovely ships of the 17th century,

~Brigand

February 11, 2015

No company is their right mind would advertise a early access beta. Until the game launches on steam i don't think they should really be trying to get casual players playing the game.

If you ask me, they should try their utmost to keep casual player away from the game. Not just now, but also in the long run.

~Brigand

February 11, 2015

The title of this thread is a bit misleading; a quick time line of the ages:

The Age of Discovery starts in the early 15th century and continued till the early 17th century.
The Age of Sail lasted from the 16th to the mid-19th century.
The Dutch Golden Age roughly spanned the 17th century.
The Golden Age of Piracy spans (by its broadest accepted definition) from the 1650s to the 1730s.
The Napoleonic era is from November 1799 till June 1815.
The Golden Age of Sail is generally agreed to be the period in the 19th century, immediately before steamboats started to take trade away from sail.

Cheers,

Brigand

February 10, 2015

Found a nice historic online map of the Caribbean, published in 1715.

About (original image size: 23,740 × 14,245 pixels):

Title:                  A Map of the West Indies
Creator:                Moll, Herman
Place of publication:   London
Date of publication:    1715
Rights:                 This material may be protected under Title 17 of the U. S. Copyright Law which governs the making of photocopies or reproductions of copyrighted materials. You may use the digitized material for private study, scholarship, or research.
Collection:             Birmingham Public Library Cartography Collection
Holding.Institution:    Birmingham Public Library (Alabama)
Original Source:        Rucker Agee Map Collection

(source)

I thought it might be nice for you folks.

Cheers,

Brigand

February 10, 2015

i for one would hate to see this game become a pay to win game.. i have already paid my money .. i do not wish to pay more..

if the devs had said from the get go that this will eventually become a free to play game with in game payments i would have thought twice about buying it.

too many game these days are becoming p2w and not releasing as a full one payment game these days.

@admin has said:

"payment model will be similar to Guild Wars 2." (link)

"We are going to sell copies and sell premium content (ships) in the store." (link)

So there is, at this moment, absolutely nothing that indicates 'free to play'.

~Brigand

February 9, 2015

I don't think 'democracy' is the correct term, because it (nowadays) holds certain presumptions about equal vote weight, not being allowed to intimidate other voters, etc. etc. Yet, there is more than enough evidence that pirate ships where a far from the autocracy found aboard non-pirate ships.

Each pirate had a say in things and if the majority of a pirate crew thought the captain to be a coward, it was their 'right' to relieve him from command (methods varied). I'm a bit sceptical about how a bunch of half drunk (there is more than enough evidence on the rum-drinking part) criminals would allow for dissenting opinions on such matters, but that does not take away the fact that the 'pirate society' aboard a ship was a lot more egalitarian than any other society in 'the civilised world'.

So a pirate crew, as mentioned by @maturin, had a say in just about anything, from where they would be cruising to when they would next sail into a harbour. (Between 1650 and 1680 Tortuga for example did become a free-haven for buccaneers, which was not in a small part because of the English governors of Jamaica the time). There 'rights' where not uncommonly written down (although one has to keep in mind that almost none of the common sailors could read or write) in a code of conduct, now known as the 'pirate code', some have even survived to this day and are now in museum.

~Brigand

February 8, 2015

Not quite. Think of it as a constitution or set of laws, which most democracies have. Being a democracy doesn't mean we can do whatever we want whenever we want. We have laws to follow. Same with the Pirate Code. If you didn't like the code, you didn't sail with the captain.

You are confusing some concepts here.

A democracy has to do with how decision are taken.

A law is a set of rules which are created through some formal process.

A constitution is a core law (for lack of a better simple description).

A 'Pirate Code' or 'code of conduct' can (let's be lenient) be seen somewhat as a law (but not a constitution). A Pirate Code could set rules on what you can or cannot do, it could also rule that every man is allowed to do whatever they please.

Being a democracy says nothing about what you can or cannot do, if the majority votes in favour of doing whatever everybody pleases, you have a democratic anarchy :-) Anarchy is a word not uncommonly associated with piracy, so we may be on to something here.

~Brigand

February 8, 2015

The idea is a nice one, it somewhat models the fact that information travelled far more slowly in the age of sail. I think this can work, even in a world where instant communications such as team speak and chat are available at the same time.

Because of chat, when, for example, an exploration player gets attacked by some other player gone pirate, the explorers clan mates will know when it happens and of course they can try to send help, etc. Yet, the act of piracy itself is not communicated inside the game world, before the explorer (or any law abiding ship they met after the encounter; information spreads like an virus, 'contaminating' everyone it touches) sails into a port. Only when the information reaches port, the authorities will put up a "wanted: dead or alive" notice on the harbour masters office.

I think that it should be quite interesting to have a system like this... it would offer interesting gameplay possibilities such as leaving no man alive after a battle? what if some sailor survived anyhow?

Cheers,

Brigand

February 7, 2015

Where stunsails used in battle? or where they a typical tool for speeding up the long voyage?

~Brigand

February 7, 2015

*Cough* Pirate state *Cough*

A state is an organized community living under one government. (source)

Last time I checked, pirates did not recognize any for of government? If you submit yourself to a governing body, you can hardly be called a pirate if you ask me.

~Brigand

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