Brigand
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Posts posted by Brigand
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If you have received a tester key, all is fine. No further keys have been send out at this point in time.
Hope this helps,
Brigand
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French poundage was also a touch higher than RN practice. Though not as much in this period as later.
(...)
Hmm, I'm not sure it is common to calculate broadside weight based on the actual weight of the shot, instead of the nominal weight of the shot?
livre lb ratio (Avoirdupois pounds converted to English pound) 36 40.3 1.119443753 24 26.6 1.108332649 18 20.1 1.116665977 16 18 1.124999306 12 13.4 1.116665977 8 9 1.124999306 avarage 1.118517828
That's all most confusing. My sources say that 1 Livre du roi equalled 1.079 English pounds. Which is ~ 0.040 lb difference with what your numbers give as an average.
I have a hard time finding the right number, do you have better information than the numbers as listed in the OP?
~Brigand
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However, I have read that Sea Trials are only in place for testing and that the arena match will go away at some point as they focus more and more on the Open World. Might be just rumor but I have heard this talked about fairly often. (...)
Admin has said that the Sea Trial (battle arena) will be "dismanteld" after all early access testers have been moved to the Open World.
~Brigand
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Wow, nice write up maturin! This is the sort of information I like.
To recap the information:
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L'Unite (1794) -> HMS Surprise
O'Brian (but with armament mixed up), Jack Aubrey
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Gracieuse (1787), Fifth Rate -> Unite -> HMS Unite
O'Brian's mix-up ship?
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24-gun frigate HMS Rose (1757) & replica HMS Rose (1970) -> HMS Surprise
Replica ship featured in Master and Commander
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HMS Surprise (1812), Fifth Rate
Leda-class 18-pounder frigate
Do we have any confirmation on which ship the in-game Surprise is supposed to be? Or are we all assuming it should be the first, L'Unite (1794)?
Separate from the above, it has been bugging me for some time that the in-game ships seem to be over-armed. Some may feel this is not a problem, but I think it will only create a nightmare of balance issues later on (should the Amsterdam be allowed heavier armament? she is listed as 42-gun after all.... 10 of which where, in reality, swivel guns!).
Should we lobby for a general downsize in armament for those vessel who are currently carrying too much metal? Starting with the L'Unite (1794) / HMS Surprise?
Brigand
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L'Unite (1794) -> HMS Surprise
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(Topic moved to Tavern)
This question is very hard to answer, without at least mentioning a time frame. Typically, nations with navies are split up in two categories: maritime powers and naval powers, there is a distinction between the two: maritime powers depend on the sea for their very survival, whereas naval powers have no vital interests at sea, but use their naval strength to advance national power.
Countries such as Britain and the Dutch Republic where maritime powers, France is, on the other hand, a naval power.
Since maritime powers depend on the sea for the countries survival, there is a lot of maritime knowledge and advancement outside the navy. When a war is declared, such countries have a large body of able seamen to draw from.
~Brigand
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Nicely done!
~Brigand
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I must admit that I don't understand this Brigand.
As mentioned the Océan class is on the way, which is a 118 gun behemoth very closely resembling the Caledonia, and the Santisima already carries more guns than both at 140 guns.
I was too fast with replying: I thought it was another mooore guns! ship, based on the year and the number 120. Later I saw the images showing her side by side with the Océan class, and they are indeed rather similar.
~Brigand
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Table updated, historic broadside weight is now converted from national pounds into English pounds by conversion ratio as listed.
~Brigand
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French 118-gun :
- 1786 : 32 × 36pd + 34 × 24pd + 34 × 12pd + 18 × 8pd + 6 × 36pd 124 guns
- 1807/1812 : 32 × 36pd + 34 × 24pd + 34 × 18pd + 14 × 8pd + 12 × 36pd 132 guns
Because so many ships have been upgraded through their career, it would be too complicated to list all their loadouts in one table. When I first started, I had the latest loadout of the ships career listed, but since some of the ships are quite modern, their loadout was updated later than the 1830s, so outside the period of the game. So, instead I choose to list the first/initial loadout for ships.
Hope this explains it,
Brigand
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Le Commerce de Marseille broadside is too heavy.
32 × 36pd + 34 × 24pd + 34 × 12pd + 18 × 8pd + 6 × 36pd = 2736pd
2736pd /2= 1368pd (36pd carronades included)
You are correct, and looking at the number I listed, I have no idea how I came up with it.
I've updated the list as follows:
lower deck : 28 * 36-pounder guns + 4 * 36-pounder stern chasers,
middle deck : 34 * 24-pounder guns,
upper deck : 34 * 12-pounder guns,
fore castle : 16 * 8-pounder guns + 6 * 36-pounder carronades + 2 * 8-pounder chasers
Broadside weight: 1,288 livre du roi (French pounds).
I wonder if I should show the values converted to English pounds; the difference in French pounds vs English pounds being 1 livre du roi = 1.079 lb. So a broadside weight of 1,288 livre du roi would translate in ~1390 lb.
Thoughts?
~Brigand
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Well, I would rather not see her making it into the game. She would only serve to stretch the balance in favour of the late, later, latest ship, thereby making all earlier ships obsolete. Right now, we have the Santisima, if you introduce this, both the Victory and the Santisima would be considered uninteresting. Having more guns is only interesting as long as you have the most. Introduce this, and tomorrow comes the bigger behemoth and so on and so forth.
~Brigand
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Uh, what happened to the title?
The title was changed because it could be interpreted as if the list in this topic would be the next poll, while in fact it is 'merely' a list of all the ships for which plans available, posted in the Shipyard section so far.
~Brigand
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Ah, the Thames shipbuilders method :-)
other methods include:
Burthen = ( (Length on deck - (Beam * 0.6)) * Beam * (Beam / 2) ) / 94
Burthen = ( Length on deck * Beam * Depth in hold ) / 100
Burthen = ( Length on deck * Beam * (Beam / 2) ) / 96
Where the denominator changed during the years (gradually growing smaller) and Depth in Hold was not uncommonly replaced by half-beam.
There is an interesting dissertation on the topic:
Tonnage Measurement of Ships: Historical evolution, current issues and proposals for the way forward
by Aji Vasudevan, World Maritime University, Malmö, Sweden
Cheers,
Brigand
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Would enjoy the TinTin ship, though
Se strongly reminds me of the model of a real ship posted on these forums not long ago.
~Brigand
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I believe the term 'frigate' was used rather loosely in the 17th century, describing various forms of warship. Later on it become more synonymous with the single decker fast warship that we now consider "the" frigate of the age of sail.
Even today, 'frigate' is a not very well defined term for a warship. Is it defined by function? Size? Multiple possibilites there and also used rather liberally.
Thanks, I noticed my terminology was too strict.
~Brigand
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This topic is spiralling down, regardless.
Locked
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Why the Snow was named so in the game, when it is named Ontario?
I think the in-game snow was only roughly based on the Ontario (maybe on a cheap model kit?), instead of a detailed (digital) reproduction. The Ontario has been listed in the poll for player to vote on, on which I based my idea that the in-game snow is not the Ontario, or at least not identical. It has however been very difficult to get references about the origins of the in-game Snow or the cutter for that matter).
For this reason, I've listed her name as a best guess for her origins.
Hope this explains it.
~Brigand
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Would the name on the stern of a ship include the le/la/les? or would the article only be used when written down in documents and such?
~Brigand
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Which burthen calculations did you use (there are
tooso many of them)?~Brigand
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For all that we know, a ship from one nation will be available to all nations.
On a more important note: this thread is rife with nationalism. Nationalism has no place in on these forums, not even when it is wrapped in an historical cover. The options for this topic are:
- Tone it down, make this discussion (a lot) more constructive;
- The topic will be locked.
Cheers,
Brigand
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The Indiaman Amsterdam (the one that will be added to the game) had an armament of 42 cannons, which sounds impressive enough, unless you take a look at what weight those cannons where (it might not be news to everyone):Ah yes, this post goes right up my alley (Merchant first, Naval Officer second). I'm looking forward to seeing the Indiamen vessels introduced to the game. I was hoping they would add them soon so we can test their capacity in combat.
8 x 12pdr
16 x 8pdr
8 x 4pdr
10 swivel guns
The 12 and 8 pounders are gonne hurt a privateer, the 4 pounders and swivels are less impressive.
~Brigand
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Updated:
- the brig is confirmed fictional: "It is not modeled after any particular ship".
- The Surprise's tonnage (burthen) has been updated (thanks Lieste, threedecks had the displacement listed as burthen).
~Brigand
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That's not really a frigate is it? looks more like a (nice looking) regular ship to me.
~Brigand
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From what I've seen, it may not be that the ships are too boyant, they simply seem to miss Inertia. They float like they don't have any mass.
~Brigand
Remember to keep Arena Mode GL!
in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions
Posted
The arena mode type of battle availability is planned to be tied into the open world. The topic Battle availability: Gank, Post, Fleet duty started by @admin explains how. But for some reason people only noticed the 'teleport' mechanic and seem to have missed the rest of it, which is actually quite good and innovative.
The idea is that players who wish to do so, can (in the Open World) sign up with the navy in order to get access to combat with minimal waiting time: a merchant hires up to x escort ships. When this merchant gets into a fight, the players signed up with the navy are selected to fight in those battles. Since a battle will be fought in an instance, this essentially boils down to battle arena fights, (tied in with the Open World universe) with minimal waiting time on the side of the player who signed up for the 'fleet duty'. In other words, 'fleet duty' is an in-game name for 'quick fight mode' for those who don't have the time or inclination to roam the open seas to go looking for conflict themselves.
~Brigand