Brigand
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Posts posted by Brigand
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Perhaps I misunderstood you, but to me, we seem to be hitting upon the same thing.
I think we are beating the same drum indeed.
~Brigand
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I think that setting up 'static' wind zones is a bad idea, or at least, it is a bad combination with dynamic wind zones.
If you try to combine both into the same world, the dynamic wind zones are quickly pushed into the 'fake feature' (I hate the term) regions. Let's face it, why would you sail in a dynamic wind zone if you could get a 100% guaranteed speedy ocean crossing by using the static wind zones?
The trade winds in the real world are steady enough, whole economies have been build on them. So, why not implement the real thing instead of an artificial simplification? Trade winds give enough certainty about when to sail for which cost at good speeds, while not being static. Having trade winds blow slower at certain times of the year would create a nice need for strategic planning (when will you sail your fleet across the ocean, can you keep it hidden until the wind slows down, will reinforcements be able to react timely, can you expect a speedy escape into friendly waters, etc, etc.)
I can see the wish for eliminating total calms (although it is not necessarily my wish), but please model wind in a lot of varieties, including, but not limited to, trade winds, storms, gales a nice steady breeze and lots of other varieties.
Cheers,
Brigand
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Heya,
what's up with the forum's chat function? I tried the link and it says:
Oops! Something went wrong!You do not have access to our chat room.
Need Help?
- Our help documentation
- Contact the community administrator
Could be nice to have a chat option as it would be much quicker to discuss certain ideas before posting them.
Cheers,
Brigand
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@Admin
Can we wrap this up? I think the poll shows a clear preference for the old system.
~Brigand
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Are hits under the waterline even really possible? Shot could conceivably travel through a foot or two of water and pierce a thinner sort of hull, but it is almost bound to ricochet at that angle.
I first thought along the same lines as you did here, but then I realised that certain holes can be below the waterline: Imagine you have a hit between wind and water and started sinking a bit. Due to the increased draft, the hit that was previously between wind and water is now below the waterline and takes in water, no matter the tack.
~Brigand
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Hits between wind and water may count as hits below. I think that eases things out. (draw a line where hits count as taking on water)
I would really be a sad monkey if hits between wind and water would all be treated the same. It would take away the tactics/necessity to sail on a tack that keeps the damaged side windward as to keep those holes from taking in water while at the same time making the work of the carpenter and his mates a lot more easy.
~Brigand
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I don't know how early you plan to take this game's development - I am hoping at least 16th century eventually and I know there are a lot of fans of this era.
Initial model line up range from 1680 till 1820. (see admin's post)
Historically speaking, I would add that there are actually quite a few examples of powder magazines exploding from hits during the 16th and 17th centuries. The best ones I can think of right off the top of my head are Sir John Hawkins destruction of the great Almiranta galleon Santa Clara at the Battle of San Juan Ulloa with the great aging Hanseatic carrack Jesus of Lubeck. Also there's Heemskerk's famous attack on the Spanish fleet at the Battle of Gibraltar where the Dutch Admiral's flagship Aeolus destroyed one of the great battle galleons - I think it was the Our Lady of Vega, but I can't remember. Several of the lesser actions of the Anglo-Dutch wars also resulted in capital ships lost to powder magazine explosions but I would have to look them up to remember the battles and ship names.
It has been noted before that explosions did happen. Whether these explosions happened from cannon ball hits, or from other events during the chaos of battle, is not all that clear. In the time period of this game, magazines where generally speaking build well below the waterline, special 'light rooms' where adopted to make absolutely sure there was no source of fire anywhere near the powder, decks where watered, etc, etc.
By far the most explosions that did happen, happened because of a fire on the ship. And it may be worth noting that fire destroyed a lot of ships without there ever being an explosion. So, in other words, while fires where somewhat common, explosions where exceedingly rare (but yes, they did happen). Luckily the real world in this case is in line with what makes a good gameplay mechanic.
~Brigand
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Both Willems van de Velde where absolute masters when it came to painting ships and rigging. But, they both depict scenes that are too early for Naval Action: Willem van de Velde (the Elder) lived from 1611 to 13 December 1693 and Willem van de Velde (the Younger) was baptised in 1633 and died on 6 April 1707.
I'm sure there are more great painters of ships and their rigging, we just have to find out who lived in the +/- 1780 for Naval Action :-)
Caption: Dutch men-o'-war and other shipping in a calm, Willem van de Velde (the Younger) [full size image (14.72 MB)]
He often depicted the same (type of) ship twice so you can see the rigging from more than one perspective. I just love how every little detail is painted.
~Brigand
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Thanks for sharing this with us, I feel honoured that we are asked to contribute to this.
For shots near the waterline, I think it would be most desirable to have several small hitboxes (see image) and keep track of whether or not this line of hitboxes is below the water (because of heeling). This would allow for holes 'betwixt wind and water' to only contribute to sinking if these holes are actually submerged.
I would further like to point out that the amout of water that 'pushes' through a hole below the waterline is becoming less and less as the pressure difference between the inside of the ship (air) and the outside of the ship (water) is lessened. This results in lots of water rushing in at first, but, once the hole is under the waterline on both sides, the amount of water flowing in is a lot less.
Fire is a difficult question to get historic data on, so it leaves quite a bit of room to implement it as you want and use it to balance the gameplay. However, some points seem to be quite clear:
- Fires happened during battles, they where not that uncommon.
- Ships burning all the way where a lot more rare, but it did happen.
- Ships exploding where rare as well, but again, it did happen.
With regard to the last bullet point (ship explosions) they seem to have happened more in times of chaos; when a good part of the crew was disabled and the powder monkeys (the boys responsible for bringing up the gunpowder from the magazine to the gun crews) had a lot more chance of falling over some debris and spilling the powder across deck. So maybe the number of wounded crew + the hull & sail damage together should combine to increase the chances of having explosions happen.
Explosions usually wouded a good part of the crew around the incident. So even if the explosion is small enough for the ship to survive it, the crew numbers should be deminished by an explosion.
Cheers,
Brigand
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Ryan, thanks for posting the reply.
I didn't notice before but, indeed, none of the images showing ships from the VOC (Dutch East India Company) show any reef bands on the topsails.
Batavia (1628)
Batavia (1628), sail plan
De zeven provinciën (1665) (large file)
Pinas (source: Nicolaes Witsen, 1671.- Aeloude en
Hedendaegsche Scheepsbouw en Bestier).More images as painted by Willem van de Velde (the Elder & the Younger)
~Brigand
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Edit: I didn't see the topic now contains a poll.
~Brigand
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Hey everybody,
Since some days now, the old 'like' buttons have been replaced with the new 'rep' buttons.
I find the new buttons only adding minor value (the option to 'dislike') while sacrificing some nice options the old system had.
With the new system:
- I cannot correct a mistake: once I (accidentally) click one of the buttons, there is no method of undoing the click.
- I'm no longer notified (with a nice little red flag in the upper bar of the screen) of reputation changes.
Additionally, one could argue that 'dislikes' may lead to a less positive community feel.
So, I vote for rolling back this change and go with the old system
Thoughts?
Brigand
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That's funny, Hoorn is a completely different city, much smaller and less important than Amsterdam (although it was much more important in the 17th century than it is now and was among the first cities to obtain city rights).I think Uncharted Waters Online folks must have used the Horn scale model for their version of Amsterdam.
Might be nice to add the videos to this thread as well (they are just too good to miss):
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2hxiZAgjfU&hd=1)
~Brigand
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Displacement is a modern notion, back in the age of sail, only the tons burthen where of interest (for levying taxes). Usually it is builder's old measurement or something that was inspired by it.
~Brigand
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There is a Dutch project that bring the 17th century painting to life in 3D.
The results are incredible if you ask me:
~Brigand
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There are lot`s of other ways to identidy you pc - unique hardware ID, MAC & so on
There is, generally speaking, nothing that can uniquely identify a client, if the user has any control over the client machine or the software installed on it. In other words, the user has control over his/her PC so he will be able to spoof just about anything you can do to track him/her.
I don't think this is the place to discuss it in detail though (feel free to PM me). However, you can read an recent discussion on the effort needed to keep cheaters at bay at reddit.com; it gives an interesting insight in the anti-cheaters business, all explained in plain simple English. If you want confirmation of my statement in general, I advice asking a question at security.stackexchange.com
~Brigand
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One IP - one account. Thats it.
Sorry to disappoint you, but it is a lot more complicated than that. IP-numbers change, all the time. Some people are behind load-balancing proxies, as a result, they may look from the outside that they have several IP-numbers at once. And then there are the providers who connect whole blocks of customers through a single outgoing IP number (which may change) possibly with a load balancing option which gives multiple users a shared set of multiple IP numbers. And then there is tech-savvy users who want to deliberately appear as two or more different IP numbers.
For anything security related, you may treat requests coming from the same IP as a hint that you may be communicating to the same point of origin.
Cheers,
Brigand
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On a related note, I'd like the option to assign a hand to keep an eye on any given vessel and report notable course changes, sail changes, damage incurred, apparent targets etc. It should help keep a realistic level of situational awareness in messy fights.
This could prove to be a good solution for the awareness issues mentioned by some.
~Brigand
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(maybe move this thread to the Tavern instead of the General discussions?)
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The thing with wooden ships sinking is that it is a quite complex affair. The more water a ship takes in, the slower she will sink (due to 'physics', details are not important right now).
Apart from this, a good part of the cargo in a typical vessel (more so in trading vessels than in combat vessels, but still true for both) will float. So, when the ships starts taking in water, parts of her cargo will start floating in the hold. This floating mass gets trapped underneath the decks and both adds buoyancy (good) and shifts the centre of balance (bad).
The combination of less water flowing in and the increased buoyancy due to floating cargo makes sure that there is a very reasonable chance that at some point, the amount of water pumped out by the pump and the amount of water flowing in reaches an equilibrium: you won't sink (further) as long as you keep working the pumps. In real history, there are numerous stories about ships that made it to port because of this equilibrium.
One of the problems of cargo going afloat in the hold was that it had a good chance of damaging or clogging the pumps (and some pumps-types where easier damaged than others), which would quickly tip the balance in favour for the water rushing in.
So, a ship will only sink when enough water is flowing in to make sure than the pumps will never be able to counter the flow, not even on the later stages when flow is reduced. As a result, Jets of water being pumped do indicate she's leaking badly. But it in no way guarantees she will sink (any rainstorm on the horizon?).
Cheers,
Brigand
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At what point would wooden ships just be destroyed?
I do realise that this a moderns ship with an engine, etc, etc. But those weather conditions would have existed in the age of sail, I can't image it being any good to your life expectancy.
~Brigand
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I really want players to be able to collect sea shanties and have the crew sing them.
Other players would be able to hear them as well, and they could be aquired in different ways.
*some would be nation specific. (in the native language perhaps?)
*some would spread simply by hearing another player's crew singing it a few times. (Johny Reb suggested this to me.)
*Some would be aquired randomly when you dock up in port.
*some would be secret, and difficult to find. >.>
*if the game is F2P, a few of these could be sold.
On top of this, I'd like to be able to sync up the songs with my group.
I can imagine forming the line of battle against the spanish fleet, winning the day, and having the entire squadron burst out with "farwell and adieu" as the surviving spaniards flee.
This would be a feature that you remember the game by, years from now.
But seriously, it has been suggested before somewhere (in this thread? or in the 'little things' thread? (by you?)) and it is a really good idea:
- it is a perfect line of 'fanity' items, to be sold as extra content;
it self advertises itself even more, if you can hear a distant ship sing the song, but can't learn it because you didn't buy it yet,
- it offers immersion from a whole different angle,
- it offers 'collectables' that do not influence gameplay and still do a whole lot more than a simple 'batch' in your profile or something.
- Special unique songs could be offered for early backers of a kickstarter, winners of in-game tournaments, etc.
Cheers,
Brigand
- it is a perfect line of 'fanity' items, to be sold as extra content;
Bartle test
in Tavern
Posted
Explorer 67%
Achiever 53%
Killer 47%
Socialiser 33%
More balanced than I thought
~Brigand