praefect

As long we can read "content" like this, dutch and french will have a great future with each other I think.^^

I´m talking about the "neutral" participation of spaniards in the peace negotiations of the danish-french and swedish-dutch coalitions, when one side was in front of the capital of the opponent and demanded a few ports for a proper peace. Anyway, was just amused about how "neutral opinions" can differ from situation to situation.

A few weeks ago u called something similar to that a very harsh demand mate. But with the difference, that we never demanded a surrender.^^

With respect to the upcoming patch I could offer u a basic.... ähh fish cutter in fine quality for excellent fishing productivity and made of live oak! Special price, only 10.000 Gold the cutter and a mid grade note.

It was said Thursday at the latest Sunday, but not today. Furthermore I thought that we need to wait for mentioned details which needed to be discussed within french council (range of pvp-free zone within the area), no? Once everything is written down, we can ask our community about the french proposal.

Pls contact me on the dutch nation ts or ingame mate, you´ll get your Victory from my ship reserve. Probably the referred person became inactive and simply forgot about the deal. Happened to me too within my own clan.

Ya, good example of french attitude and their interpretation of honor here...

Even they would lack in diplo skills like u say, I would favor a game with brits than without. And so far I do not have the impression that brits are all bad. But its open for ur diplo work to convince us of something else than that. Nor I do. It´s a perfect response to ur lack of information and misunderstanding of given content. We don´t try to force them to change nation, we try to convince them, that proper nations should be filled with players. It´s a PvP server and we do our RPG here, don´t see a problem in that. We convinced the brits to start peace talks with spain and french and danish. I got said, that spaniards and french refused peace talks, cos they consider brits as an arch-enemy and danes kicked the brits diplo from the server. I personally spoke with french and danes about the brits and got same answers. So what you expect from us? We don´t see us as guardians, we are just normal people who seek for a healthy and funny game. We would love to see that all communities would be behind that.

The british fought pirates, spaniards, danish and french, while all of these faction refuse to have peace with the brits. Ur expectation here is that we join that war at a time, where brits warned they would go pirates if nothing will change in diplomacy and more factions would join the war? These guys were tried and sought for a break. Now lot of them are gone. And that´s what happen: french denied the sense of having an alliance with us, cos we are not attacking the brits and so we wouldn´t have a common enemy. We offered to have a joint mission against pirates, french refused, we accepted that. Now read ur text again and discover ur mistake. Our RPG is, that we don´t agree on pirates as a nation and so we will fight them till most of them joint proper nations and their population is on a proper level. Would we review our alliance with the brits if they become clearly unhealthy for the server? Yes, we would, that was one of the first things we told them in the alliance talks. Would u guys do the same? Honest enough?

Past white peace proposals where all without a link to the brits or pirates. It raised at first time, when we had castries already and brits begun to struggle in terms of activity and were not able anymore to form a council. Pirate question were a topic of "how to successful continue the dutch-french alliance" and where to find an alternative pvp opponent than the brits. If u mixed these both things, u total misunderstood us, as we already tried to explain u in the past.

... A french diplo goes to the swedes ts and says: "we are at war now, we gonna craft flags in 10 mins" -> french suppose this as an official statement 2 dutch diplo´s try over weeks to find acceptance for a white peace and invest hour over hour (u can find also posts in forum that indicate that). French diplo refuses for unclear reasons -> french say the proposal was not "official" or "detailed" enough So my questions: How we can make the dutch diplos more "official" and what more details are needed to understand what "white peace" means? And why it was not possible to clarify stuff like this in these numerous talks? For what we wasted so much time in the end? What did the french do the first 2,5 weeks where french side could had offered a peace? Why can´t the french diplomacy be constructive to find solutions, why there are only "No´s" so far? And what´s too hard to understand in that we would defend the brits, if the french want to punsh them too hard? Is the british community less worth than the french one? Funny thing is, back that time, brits were no topic for the peace at all, cos they were still doing good. First time the "brits question" became important/was raised, when we stood in front of ur capitol. Since that time brits had a rly hard time. So another disinformation within the french. That was our last proposal AFTER we asked so many times for white peace. But thank you Plerrick, now the dutch know who spreads the disinformation. There is actually no point for further talks with you if the dutch cannot believe in that all the information find their way into the french community / council. And once again Plerrick, u r allowed/free to speak with glazo or icceman instead of me, but ur continuous tries to harm my reputation as a diplomat are a bit too obvious to work out and only lead to dislikes within the dutch. Also you should not attack ur counterpart in a language he can´t understand. Since u told us that u consider [PFK] as enemies of the french nation, u might also not like to talk with glazo or icceman (who will definitely invest less time in talks than I did). So in the end the dutch nation needs a new diplomat for dealing with the french/you and so we gonna look for a new one. Maybe the french council could do the same favor for us.

I respect a lot ur efforts here horail. Here yes, there no. We enjoyed the big progress we made with u and Kaiir through proper and respectful talks. But on the other hand what we could read here from french council members and common french captains is a new low-point in relations, enough that people are motivated to continue the war for a long time. Also all this kind of desinformation is pretty much annoying. No dutch diplo wants to invest so much time again in clarifying things, that should be self-explaining or sorted out within the diplo talks. That´s not correct. These ports belong to the pvp-PB-zone, yes. We agreed on 2 dutch ports and 2 french ports and nobody could claim them for more than 24 hours. After the alliance, it would have been a green on green, so peace treaty was changed for alliance treaty, where pvp zone was no longer part of. But again, we can talk about to start this again, after we came back to the status quo before the war and bettered relations. So far it works.

With the creation of the alliance, an attack of ur ally partner would be (and will be in future) some kind of green on green, so older agreements were outdated. But as I said already multiple times, we are always open for gentlemen war´s, joint limited war missions for RPG, arranged PBs, and so on and so on... To have some kind of actions like this, both communities need a base of trust and respect towards each other, which is also linked to the diplomacy work of both parties. As far I remember, danes "warned" us, if we would not allow french to pass, french and danes would attack us. I think in the end it was a mix of looking for a break and giving the french what they need. That´s not an official statement, just my prediction where the council could agree on: - swedes get a fair peace proposal and want to accept that - dutch-french relations will change (better) significantly, especially in terms of diplomacy - french nation makes a white peace proposal to us (situation like before the war: pampatar, carupano, galdonas will stay dutch ports) Based on that, nearly all kind of additions could be possible, which gives fun to both communities... I actually fear, that we are making progress here...^^

You don´t get the point of diplomacy, don´t u? It´s about to find solutions to make two parties happy even they disagree on certain points. Not sure if I understand what u try to say... U will get additional duras the next weeks. Have fun with it. Mhm, maybe Scarborough tomorrow...

I personally had a really good impression of Horail and Kaiir. Had the feeling, that there was a rly good understanding and personal trust, so I enjoyed the talks. Would like to continue with that. Can some other french council member approve that statement? Because no further time investments are needed so. Still don´t know if its a language barrier or some culture stuff...

@Lytse Don´t think (hope) so. @whynotfr Like the 50th time, nobody asked the french to become ally with the brits! Also nobody demanded to attack the pirates! Who is telling this bs? And no, that was NOT a white peace. That was a proposal AFTER u refused 4 white peace proposals. Can someone pls translate this into french? To a certain degree trolling is funny, but that here is simply annoying. If u don´t harm the british and if british agree on that, danes and french can do with the brits whatever they want. I don´t want to repeat it again. If u want to crush the brits, we will defend their community. And I don´t see the french to become "stronger", but more numerous.

Who? Pellasgos? Glazo? Frank Fletcher? praefect? Admiral Tromp? Who?^^ Since every council clan has actualy one vote and since all the decisions in the past weeks were without dissenting vote its hard to make criticism about an ominous all mighty power in our council. But pls send greetings to charlieZulu. Is he still used as pirate spy within the dutch nation?

This user was fed with a way too much propaganda. So if the whole french community believes this stuff actually, we will have a hard time to come along.^^ Btw: Who is this "new leadership" and who are these "dutch diplomats"? There aren´t so many new guys nor many dutch diplos, u know?^^

Yes, u have a valid point. I actually refer to the amount of "organized" people. More exactly I mean guys rdy on the nations TS server rdy to participate in PB´s or screening. I agree that the french nation has 100 active players on a daily base on their TS server. Thing is, 1-2 month ago, an amount over 100 people on dutch ts was not unlikable and beside that nearly all our clans have own TS servers with additional players who are doing open world pvp. These days we have like 50 men in total if u count the danes and the afk guys in addition on our DN server.^^ But u r right, it´s more a feeling/guess then a proper official count. I´ll ask the council, but tbh, I do not see an agreement for that within near future. But I agree in one point, after port wipe, the dutch nation will most likely have a look in the east. Anyway, tnx for the nice chat and fair winds to you mate. gl&hf

At least 2 times for New Edinburgh too, thats true Glazo. :/

Hey Horail, how are you? Thank´s for your post, lets have a look. So st goerges was retruned to the french, and the french gived it to the swedes. That´s correct mate. Dutch wanted that swedes have their silver, so we gave St. Georges to the swedes. We got an unofficial and an official french diplo note afterwards. The unofficial note was, that french have a hard time with their hardliners who want to have back St. Georges, cos the french side would interpret the dutch-french peace, that St. Georges would definitely be handled over to the french after a while. But that´s not what was agreed on. If dutch wouldn´t agree to give St. georges to the french, flags would be crafted. The official request was made in front of our council at same day at evening. In a much more friendly tone, the french diplo highlighted problems within the french community and in order to solve that we would have to make an announcement which would say, that we gave the port to the french and that the french gave it kindly to the swedes, as an act of grace. In the end we made an announcement where it stands, that both nations agreed on. Otherwise there would have been some kind of war within our council... Think the content of the final announcement was a fair and compromising move in the end. Yes, I said that and I´m behind that. I´ll personally offer these ports to the french, if the dutch have the feeling, that the french nation somehow defeated us or deserve it as a gift. So if u would take a lot of ports, if u would be better in PBs/ win PBs and all that in a fair way, such that our guys have to admit that the french navy beat us, you guys will get these ports and we agree on the new border. On the other hand we can´t actually understand, why the french refuse to give away one single port while we took 28 and are demanding now 3 ports, when they took 3 while we only have like a half of a fleet ready atm... So where is the honor in that? From our point of view we gonna wait for the next big patch when most of our pvp guy´s are back and then we can have a proper war, where the french are fighting to conquer our ports and we for theirs. Yes, that´s true. Thing is, we warned the french diplos that if the war goes too long, it will become hard to stop it and pvp guys will demand something in return in the end, cos they had to leave haiti, were forced to stay in the east and our white peace proposals were rejected for non-understandable reasons which were given to us. But we stepped back from our demands to much less ports and we said, it can be solved by another sign of friendship, f.e. a good RPG-text from the french, where the enemy is honored, or by a joint mission against a third party, or anything else. But there was never a counter proposal by the french or something. If french would have agreed to give us ports, we would have given them all to the swedes, cos based on their amount of players, they deserve more ports. So we never demanded the french to surrender, or that the dutch will have a huge profit or anything... we just wanted u on the peace table to speak with us about our and swedes needs too. The game has actually no deep game mechanics, so a lot has to be done via RPG to motivate the players. The french totally blocked that from our point of view and that´s the reason why we lost 2 and more PB fleets. If u agree or not, given that opinion u can imagine that the dutch council is not really in mood to make any kind of gift towards the french while we have a hard time in terms of activity. We basically don´t care about these ports, but we don´t see the circumstances to give the french these ports. We could make them as a gift, but french are no friends of us actually and have enough own ports. We could say, french would have more people in the nation and would deserve more ports, but that wouln´d be true, cos (as ur diplo agreed on), u guys only have more active players atm, cos u did some "good" propaganda which worked (with the result that dutch, british and swedish nation were called the "Nazi-Axis" the french have to resist by some french captains). Based on players within the nation, normally the dutch nation is the bigger one. We could say, that the french navy is better then ours and defeated us in a proper way, so that as RPG-players we would agree to praise the french and would give them ports. But that´s not the truth at all atm. So from our point of view there is simply no reason at all to give the french ports. Under these circumstances I fear, war will continue for a very long time. Tbh, I invested a way too much time in the past weeks for getting a peace. I can remember a talk f.e., which gone from 10pm till 6am next day, that was only one talk of a lot more. If there are still miscommunications or missed info´s, only 2 possibilities are left: Language barrier or totally different cultures who can´t come along. We read the the french posts today carefully, especially the ones from french council members, and will discuss this in our nation. I think there will be an announcement pretty soon... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- If spanish diplomats have a problem with the peace negotiation of swedes/dutch & danes/french they can join our ts and speak with us directly. Maybe we also invite US and Brits to join, cos french seem to like to invite the whole server. I´m sorry to Eric, I missed the little turner. Kerrib is ur TS name on our ts, isn´t it? Otherwise I apologize, sometimes I´m bad with names.^^ But shouldn´t be taken as another insult.

1. That´s not what we got told. And the only answer I got from the danes was, they cannot agree on peace, cos the french don´t want to so far. So what took you 2,3 weeks to make a peace proposal? 2. There was no peace proposal from the french back that time we could have rejected. To who u guys gave this proposal? 3. [EDR] Eric & Kerrib de Badas stated that. There were even coalition peace talks on ur ts server where this was repeated. So much about lack of information and my "bullshit". Same for us. Cos of that we tried to make a mutual peace at every single point in the war and convinced our community for long enough to accept a white peace. We told the swedes we would not fight an endless and unnecessary war for them, but we would help to defend their community to have a fair amount of ports and to get a peace. As far I know there was no peace proposal from french side towards swedes and our´s were rejected. Dutch and Swedes took over 28 french ports and french statement was, to ask for one single port is an insult for ur community. Now u said ports doesn´t matter at all before u continue to demand 3 of 3 conquered ports. At same time you guys blame us for beeing too proud? Srsly?! Just a few weeks ago u demanded an announcement from the dutch to state that St. Georges was given back to the french nation, cos ur community demands this for their honor and would split otherwise. We agreed based on that explanation and now u blame our pride?! Furthermore the Dutch council agreed that the swedes can accept a separate peace with french and danish if they wish to or to save their community. And if dutch community would like to continue the war then it´s not about pride, but it´s cos this is a pvp server and cos french actually convince us to bee a natural enemy of us. That`s an very ... interesting point of view u guys have. It clearly speaks for itself.

South-Eastern was neutral, then it became dutch, then french tried to conquer them. Afterwards french and Dutch agreed upon a peace (even an alliance later on), were our border was defined and a lot of the ports were given to the french. French not rly care about stuff like this? Why do we even have treaties then with the french? If the french community is now fighting to conquer these ports, no problem, but be honest atleast. Ask the swedes. We easily found the natural end of the war with them and had always good and constructive talks about the needs of both communities. Just find a natural end with us. Atm french diplomacy is doing everything to convince us to continue the fights. And pls don´t forget the statement of the french when we were in front of ur capitol: "It´s in insult for the french community to ask for one single port". We won´t forget that, because that was the clearest moment where french showed, that they don´t care about other communities. That was the moment were dutch player were deeply pissed about the game, cos u cannot enforce a victory by game mechanics, so it all relies on the behavior of the people in that game. The french behavior lead to player leaving the game, our players in that case. Once a big patch / server wipe came and these guys are back, we will need someone to fight. And it´s pretty much easy to motivate yourself to fight someone you actually dislike cos he harmed you. And exactly that shows us, that there is a communication problem between both nations, cos what french state in forum is not what was discussed in the diplo talks. It was also written often enough in the relevant threads what really happend and french community is still not informed. One reason why french diplomacy is not reliable. 1. War started, dutch took one french port, french took 5 dutch ports in the first days. French and dutch agreed, that this war is stupid. Dutch would like to stay in Haiti to fight pirates, so dutch offered white peace (everything will go back to a status before the war). French answer: No, french are actually winning, so we do not want to stop the war yet. 2. War continued and all captured ports became dutch ports again. We asked again for white peace. French answer: No, both coalitions are equal in strength, no side has advantage yet, lets continue. 3. When dutch took scarborough, el toco, st georges, dutch asked for white peace again and warned the french, if the war will go on for too long, it will become hard to stop it, relations will decrease and pvp-player will demand something in return for all their effort, time, ships, motivation they put in. French answer: we cannot accept, cos french community would feel like they were defeated if we agree on white peace while st. georges is a dutch port. 4. When we took part of our south-eastern territory we asked last time for white peace. French answer: No, there will come a patch in few days where 1st rates become meaningless and 4th rates will become important. French will easily retake all the ports then. Also the dutch should make this war as dirty as possible, so that the french council would learn how stupid it was to enter this war. So war continued again. 5. We went north and took ports like castries, bridgetown. The dutch council was already angry on the french and this time we (dutch & swedes) asked for ports as start of negotiations. As a result french would still have had 15 ports with silver and everything. We said, it´s not rly about the ports, it´s more about a strong sign of what the dutch have achieved and that french and dutch can deal with each other. If there is a good alternative to ports, we would also accept this. An idea was, a joint-mission against pirates. There was no alternative idea from french side, just some "oh our proud" stuff. Other explanation we got from the french were: - We had already a peace proposal, but it took us 2 weeks to come in touch with everyone. - We wanted this war, cos dutch would come to help the swedes. In that time pirates are free again and can help the Spaniards against the British. - We needed the war against the swedes, cos our community was divided and they hate the swedes, especially the Drunk clan. None of these reasons actually convince us that there is a french way of diplomacy the dutch could actually like to deal with. The french never ever were a victim in that war. There was no need at all to attack the swedes and no need at all the refuse an ending of that war. About brits, we never demanded anything about french diplomacy towards brits. We just told you, as long brits are weak, don´t have a council and don´t have PB-fleets, so long we would help the brits in order they would have to fight spaniards, pirates, danes and french. We would do this for the server balance and health. Something french are obviously not really interested in. So we simply asked, what would the french do after a peace with us, cos they need an pvp-opponent. We asked, because we are honest in our way of diplomacy and we actually care about others needs. French give 2 ports to swedes, for silver and live oak so swedish nation can survive. -> Great move (dutch gave alr. st. georges to the swedes for the silver, but somehow it´s french again. The swedes thought they could buy a peace with that but made the calculation without the french it seems) French demand one swedish port for that in return. -> what?! French demand 3 more dutch ports in addition. -> oh yeah, french finally f***** the relations to the dutch. To make it simple and clear: French seem to have a huge problem with their circulation of information within the nation. Together with all this french propaganda and their feeling of proud, dutch and french have a significant problem, cos it makes diplomacy between both nations impossible. I´m just a player who wants to have fun in a game without deep mechanics. It´s not my job to be the information dealer of the french. My job is to make clear what the positions of the dutch and the dutch council are. And atm we have the bad feeling, that diplomacy is not possible with the french side. So may the french believe what they like to believe, but don´t expect that the dutch will step back just so french can save their "proud" or their propaganda made picture of the situation.

Short diplo update/announcement: The french peace proposal given to the dutch is rejected by the High Dutch Council with unanimous assent. In order to demand ports / to enforce the take over of dutch ports we prompt the french navy to actually defeat our nation.

And again same guy denied us to attack. This time Barranquilla. It´s really demotivating... screenshot