The Nation Head System Idea to OFFSET ALT activates

[Rebel Witch]

5 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said:

Rebel Witch you must know EVE well, we had spies and massive corporate robberies and infringements with far greater impacts than NA, any thoughts or lesson to be taken here?

 

Been playing EVE for about 10 years now and still love it. Its a mature game, its a game of complete player freedom and options. It is a big sandbox for old kids to go play good guy bad guy, mostly really bad guy. Many players do not want the cutthroat , anything goes, adult steep learning curve kind of game like EVE, but many do thats why EVE Online is one of the most successful MMO's of all time, so far.

The beauty of EVE Online is that it caters to every kind of player. The crafter, the trader, the traitor, the hoarder, THE CAREBEAR, the spy, the PVEr, the PVPr the explorer and on and on. It is a brilliant sandbox game many people do not understand yet loath and refuse to see its mechanic as "player" liberating.

Many players are here to play pretend and carebear, thats fine. many players just want a "my little sailboat" rub a dub dub with your clan mate happy go lucky kinda game, thats great too! This is the most beautiful ship game i have ever played. However this game also teases the aspect of a giant sailboat sandbox, its not there yet. I dont even know if the DEvs know about EVE Online and how this game can flourish with bits of wisdom from EVE. I do know the Devs have done a fantastic job with this game and are clearly trying to make all players happy but cant seem to find the sweet spot. My recommendation is they study eve online a bit. I would bet money on naval action hitting 50,000 subscribers a few years after launch if it is implemented similarly to EVE Online with a vast new open world sandbox wtih a high sec and nulsec ocean zones.

I did a lot of spying and pvp in EVE but i also had my core friends i supported and traveled to europe to visit. You could not pay me to backstab good friends. Naval Action is the same, it has great communities of players, clans, and yes some of them are not happy about spies and traitors. However for this game to be adult and not childish, players need to be free to backstab and spy and let players dish out their own revenge with big cannon and ocean depths. Thats naval action I can get on board with.

 

[Raekur]

6 minutes ago, Rebel Witch said:

However for this game to be adult and not childish, players need to be free to backstab and spy and let players dish out their own revenge with big cannon and ocean depths. Thats naval action I can get on board with.

 

This part I would love to see but currently "green on green" has been disabled. I would love to be able to have someone join a port battle and just sit there on the beach waiting to be boarded. I would start dropping mortar rounds on them fast enough to resemble a hail storm. If a mechanic was active in game currently for dealing with spys then I am quite sure no one would be complaining about them as that means that they could be dealt with, problem is that the ability was taken away and underhanded dishonorable tactics were allowed to flourish unchecked. I am just unsure WHY the devs disabled friendly fire, if you cant aim, dont shoot. The ai are still more then happy to blast an enemy vessel regardless if I happen to be between them or not..

[Norfolk nChance]

 

This is why I wanted Rebel Witch's input. EvE is darker and yet its able on just one server cover so many player styles and levels I think successfully. The EvE choice at the start of four different nations as little effect later on as you progress in the game. And is more to do with your clan and who that clan is allied too. Naval Action is the opposite being fundamentally tied to your Nation. Whether you wanted to be allied to a same Nation clan or not.

 

Do we need such ties to our original Nation for NA to work? Could it work on an EvE system with just Clan alliances? I don't think would work in practice but was trying to think of different work rounds... 

I had Two ALTs apart from my main in EvE, giving CCP a nice monthly fee. I know that was less than average for most player ALTs. This is a real money earner as I stated earlier and NA needs to tap into it as well as brand new players.

 

Norfolk.

 

[Kiithnaras]

Here's the issue with comparing NA to other MMO's; Mechanics. In Eve - the only purely-PvP MMO that I can think of - a Spy has to be careful. If they're discovered, outed, or suspected, they can be kicked from the corporation, attacked and killed, podded back to empire, etc. There are consequences for being a bad spy. Good spies never let on that they're spying or doing anything shady. MMOs that aren't primarily PvP have limited need or use for spies and alts.

The problem in NA is that it is primarily a PvP game (on the PvP servers), but we are forbidden from taking action against subversive elements. Green on Green is a bannable offense. We can't chat-block, we can't evict from nation, we can't even shoo away suspicious shadows with violence. Spies have all the agency in the world to act, while non-subversive players have none at all. We can't even toss out or shoot at someone who joins a Lineship battle in a Cerberus for the lulz.

[Raekur]

Though I have not played EVE I have played something I think is similar, Freelancer. This space based PVPMMO could be customized pretty much on the fly with a very small download if things changed and had many of the same elements that NA does, Trading, Missions, and Pirating. The thing they didn't have, alliances or diplomacy that was faction based. Alliances were formed by clans and tracked by clans only. If someone got out of line, there was a bounty board on the forum for all to see and EVERYONE was able to collect on that bounty. Get out of line, the entire server would be chasing you down for that screenshot that was worth 5 million. If the offense was bad enough, some would hunt the prey down, kill them, and NOT collect on the bounty to keep it open up to a week. 

[Rebel Witch]

16 hours ago, Kiithnaras said:

Here's the issue with comparing NA to other MMO's; Mechanics. In Eve - the only purely-PvP MMO that I can think of - a Spy has to be careful. If they're discovered, outed, or suspected, they can be kicked from the corporation, attacked and killed, podded back to empire, etc. There are consequences for being a bad spy. Good spies never let on that they're spying or doing anything shady. MMOs that aren't primarily PvP have limited need or use for spies and alts.

The problem in NA is that it is primarily a PvP game (on the PvP servers), but we are forbidden from taking action against subversive elements. Green on Green is a bannable offense. We can't chat-block, we can't evict from nation, we can't even shoo away suspicious shadows with violence. Spies have all the agency in the world to act, while non-subversive players have none at all. We can't even toss out or shoot at someone who joins a Lineship battle in a Cerberus for the lulz.

well said Kiith and lets hope we get more player control over what nation to play, as in player made nations (like corps in EVE)  and then more player control over dealing with players within that group.

[Sir Texas Sir]

On 3/15/2017 at 6:10 AM, Raekur said:

@koltes Now i think you understand what I have seen in the last 3 PB's I have gone to. The first one had 2 people who not only did not assist us but sailed into the beach, were not fired upon by the enemy and one enemy that was nearly sunk sailed up and captured one of these vessels. In the last 2 battles I have seen someone enter the battle and as soon as the battle began would leave. This is the reason why there needs to be something put in place to remove these accounts from the nation they are affecting. I don't expect them to get banned but I would like to at least kick their happy ass out of my nation.

I would love to know those exact three port battles you talk about?  Cause I'm going to bet you there was no alts used, but I'll promise you it was very pore battle coms and not working with one another is why so many where captured and lost.   We have noticed some of the same folks will run as fast as they can, normally after the first ship gets sunked.  Than your team falls apart once we do that and it's just slim pickings.  If there is true abuse than you need to screen shot it, report it and let the devs check the files.  We call our shots and focus fire and let every one knows the guys that are weak and we use our experience from fighting some of ya'll on the OW to know your weakness.   And yes ya'll have some very crappy players in each of your nations, but you want to know something?   Has any of ya'll tried to get a hold of that player and see if they need help?  We meet folks all the time that can't even manual sail and they are RA rank.  Than we find out they came from PvE or they just done nothing but grind on PvE.  Though we also see ya'll blame every person that you don't know or isn't in your clan as spies when in fact they are just some solo player.  When I was still US the fist time I asked about Port battles I was Lt Com and was told I must be a spy since I didn't know how to even look up a port battle on the map (old flag system).   We seen ya'll still do this to new and even old players.  You go and blame every for why ya'll lost a fight instead of looking at how to do better next time.

Here's a question from the last few port battles I looked at that I saw you where in against Pirates or Danes.  WHY ARE YOU A REAR ADMIRAL IN A MORTAR BRIG AND NOT A 1st RATE?   Let some low level bring the mortar brig that can't be in a first rate and you bring a ship that can help the fight.

Every thing I heard from you in this thread seems your trying to make excuses for things your nation is doing wrong on spy's when they aren't the problem.

Again if some one is cheating or abusing the system get screen shots, video and report them.  The devs will look at the logs and see if they are in fact cheating.   Believe me it works I have reported some one and got them warned for something they did that was against the rule.  The system is there for a reason.

PS....we have wonder if some times ya'll have folks dual boxing in the fights cause yes we noticed the running into each other, getting beached and other things.  Though to be honest we just think some of the players are honestly just that bad, but guess what, they showed up to fight and that should count.  Now get out there and help them learn and train them.

[Raekur]

1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I would love to know those exact three port battles you talk about?  Cause I'm going to bet you there was no alts used, but I'll promise you it was very pore battle coms and not working with one another is why so many where captured and lost.   We have noticed some of the same folks will run as fast as they can, normally after the first ship gets sunked.  Than your team falls apart once we do that and it's just slim pickings.  If there is true abuse than you need to screen shot it, report it and let the devs check the files.  We call our shots and focus fire and let every one knows the guys that are weak and we use our experience from fighting some of ya'll on the OW to know your weakness.   And yes ya'll have some very crappy players in each of your nations, but you want to know something?   Has any of ya'll tried to get a hold of that player and see if they need help?  We meet folks all the time that can't even manual sail and they are RA rank.  Than we find out they came from PvE or they just done nothing but grind on PvE.  Though we also see ya'll blame every person that you don't know or isn't in your clan as spies when in fact they are just some solo player.  When I was still US the fist time I asked about Port battles I was Lt Com and was told I must be a spy since I didn't know how to even look up a port battle on the map (old flag system).   We seen ya'll still do this to new and even old players.  You go and blame every for why ya'll lost a fight instead of looking at how to do better next time. (I do not blame people for a loss of a battle, I ask why a particular choice was made but prefer to not focus the cause upon one person because it is a team effort)

Here's a question from the last few port battles I looked at that I saw you where in against Pirates or Danes.  WHY ARE YOU A REAR ADMIRAL IN A MORTAR BRIG AND NOT A 1st RATE?   Let some low level bring the mortar brig that can't be in a first rate and you bring a ship that can help the fight. (I was in a mortar brig because of a tactical choice to send in 2 and I was the only other person online that had one)

Every thing I heard from you in this thread seems your trying to make excuses for things your nation is doing wrong on spy's when they aren't the problem.

Again if some one is cheating or abusing the system get screen shots, video and report them.  The devs will look at the logs and see if they are in fact cheating.   Believe me it works I have reported some one and got them warned for something they did that was against the rule.  The system is there for a reason. (already did this, devs did NOTHING)

PS....we have wonder if some times ya'll have folks dual boxing in the fights cause yes we noticed the running into each other, getting beached and other things.  Though to be honest we just think some of the players are honestly just that bad, but guess what, they showed up to fight and that should count.  Now get out there and help them learn and train them.

Sir Texas Sir, Since I have made no personal attacks upon your character what exactly gives you the right to attack mine? I only stated that there was a problem with certain people abusing something and there is nothing in place currently to correct it or adequately deal with it. I am not saying it is alt's as it could very well be just someone who made a character simply to be an a-hole (i have run into people that that before who enjoy a game by derailing other players)