"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA 2.6 "Major Powers update"

[BrassBattleship]

Barao, can you please remove the Flaws mechanic? I thought at least when you refit a ship you remove the flaws, but apparently not. Or at least change it so it removes the flaws after a refit.

 

[o Barão]

13 minutes ago, BrassBattleship said:

Barao, can you please remove the Flaws mechanic? I thought at least when you refit a ship you remove the flaws, but apparently not. Or at least change it so it removes the flaws after a refit.

 

Not interested. Ships flaws don't bother me at all. I simply ignore all of them. When I want to refit or scrap, then I can waste some time to see what are the ships in the class worth it to refit or scrap, or maybe sell to other nations.

[MasterBurte]

Stumbled upon another issue, maybe bug. I was refitting my old BB with some new fancy tec. So i switched from turbo electric drive to diesel 1 engine and saved some weight in the progress. I proceeded to up the speed from 25 to 26 knots, which caused a dramatic jump in weight and made the ship overweight. I found this strange so i made some digging... hehe

Ship stats 1: 25kn; 37,975t; 79,621HP

Ship stats 2: 26kn; 42,360t; 88,169HP

This results in 4,385t of additional weight for 8548HP -> 1.949HP/t.

When i drop the speed to under 25kn it doesn't translate and the HP/t delta changes dramaticly.

What i would expect is seeing the needed and therefore installed HP increasing a lot. But the game seems to hello kitty the calculations up.

[o Barão]

50 minutes ago, MasterBurte said:

Stumbled upon another issue, maybe bug. I was refitting my old BB with some new fancy tec. So i switched from turbo electric drive to diesel 1 engine and saved some weight in the progress. I proceeded to up the speed from 25 to 26 knots, which caused a dramatic jump in weight and made the ship overweight. I found this strange so i made some digging... hehe

Ship stats 1: 25kn; 37,975t; 79,621HP

Ship stats 2: 26kn; 42,360t; 88,169HP

This results in 4,385t of additional weight for 8548HP -> 1.949HP/t.

When i drop the speed to under 25kn it doesn't translate and the HP/t delta changes dramaticly.

What i would expect is seeing the needed and therefore installed HP increasing a lot. But the game seems to hello kitty the calculations up.

Is the hull maximum speed 25 knots?

[MasterBurte]

44 minutes ago, o Barão said:

Is the hull maximum speed 25 knots?

In this ballpark, not sure about the exact value. But max speed or not should not matter. The hull should has no influence on HP/t.

[o Barão]

56 minutes ago, MasterBurte said:

The hull should has no influence on HP/t.

All hulls have a maximum speed. You can push above the limit, but the engine weight will increase exponential. Hover the mouse above the hull and you will see what is the limit.

[GrantK]

3 hours ago, MasterBurte said:

Stumbled upon another issue, maybe bug. I was refitting my old BB with some new fancy tec. So i switched from turbo electric drive to diesel 1 engine and saved some weight in the progress. I proceeded to up the speed from 25 to 26 knots, which caused a dramatic jump in weight and made the ship overweight. I found this strange so i made some digging... hehe

Ship stats 1: 25kn; 37,975t; 79,621HP

Ship stats 2: 26kn; 42,360t; 88,169HP

This results in 4,385t of additional weight for 8548HP -> 1.949HP/t.

When i drop the speed to under 25kn it doesn't translate and the HP/t delta changes dramaticly.

What i would expect is seeing the needed and therefore installed HP increasing a lot. But the game seems to hello kitty the calculations up.

The game deals with speed vs hull drag how it does I guess?   IRL power needed for speed increases are logarithmic, cubed pretty much.   But confounding is trying to exceed what it seems the game calls 'hull speed'.  IRL, when your waveform hits the point where the wash 'waves' contact the end of the ship then the increase in power to exceed this speed, which was already a log form curve, simply shoots the moon.

IRL -  I have thought about the QE class and their refits.   They had 85k installed hp after refit, however practically speaking they were limited to perhaps 23.5 knots with a clean bottom.   Like there was a hull form limitation from the get go?

So while the game may not deal with installed hp and weight logically, it DOES shoot the moon on requirements to exceed hullspeed, by hook or crook?   My view.   Maybe it is in with a shout on a restriction on refits or ship design?   The details are wrong but the result is somewhere thereabouts right?

I was pondering elsewhere this forum concerning 40 knot BCs.   IRL seems impossible.   That the game chokes on power against speed at some point may not be harsh enough?   Agreed that how they get to such limitations may not pass the logic test however.

 

[Masonator]

7 hours ago, GrantK said:

IRL -  I have thought about the QE class and their refits.   They had 85k installed hp after refit, however practically speaking they were limited to perhaps 23.5 knots with a clean bottom.   Like there was a hull form limitation from the get go?

 The Queen Elizabeths were the first British battleships designed with oil-fired boilers - nobody knew quite how heavy a structure was required to adequately support oil tanks (which, spoiler alert, was equivalent to or less than that needed for coal bunkers - oops!), and they were very heavily overbuilt.  They were more than 300t overweight upon completion and sat very low in the water (the installation of torpedo bulges in the 1920s partially mitigated this, but widened the ship in the process, nullifying any speed dividends), and none of the class ever achieved their design speed of 25kts, topping out at around 23-24kts instead.  After Jutland, where Beatty and his battlecruisers charged off on their own and left 5th BS to the wolves on two separate occasions, Jellicoe ordered that they not be jeopardised on detached operations away from the rest of the Grand Fleet, as the squadron speed was limited by Warspite to only 23kts - not significantly faster than the 21kt main battleline, and far too slow to skirmish with the German battlecruisers in advance of the main fleet action as initially envisioned.

 Warspite was the slowest of the class by about half a knot as built, but ended up roughly a knot faster than her sisters after her 1934 rebuild - she received the same 80,000shp Parsons plant as Queen Elizabeth and Valiant, but her somewhat less extensive above-waterline changes left her several hundred tonnes lighter than the others, raising her waterline by a few feet.  The interwar rebuilds more than halved their machinery weight and gave them an extra 5,000shp to play with, but those savings were almost immediately reinvested into increased protection, meaning they essentially broke even in terms of speed.  Barham and Malaya were much less extensively rebuilt and retained their as-completed 24x Yarrow boilers and single-reduction turbines, and could only make about 22kts by 1940 as a result.

 So, to answer your question:  yes, it was an issue with their basic, fundamental construction principles.  All five were badly overweight for essentially their entire careers and were rebuilt several times in a slew of attempts to correct their myriad of flaws.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Masonator

[MasterBurte]

16 hours ago, o Barão said:

All hulls have a maximum speed. You can push above the limit, but the engine weight will increase exponential. Hover the mouse above the hull and you will see what is the limit.

But the thing is that the engine weight should increase proportionally to the horsepower. The horsepower is the value that should go up exponential, when reaching hull speed, but it doesn't.

[o Barão]

BETA v4.0.8 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.0.9 Optx5
• "shootDelayMin" and "shootDelayMax" values were updated to be the same as vanilla, following the dev's instruction, to avoid any issues.

[BrassBattleship]

Is it possible to change the fleet/ship stance from "Sea Control" to "In Being" after they go into any port for repairs or anything else, because the ships get stuck in constant missions and i cant select them for anything nor refit. This is beyond annoying... Why cant we have simple battle groups in this game.

 

[o Barão]

24 minutes ago, BrassBattleship said:

Is it possible to change the fleet/ship stance from "Sea Control" to "In Being" after they go into any port for repairs or anything else, because the ships get stuck in constant missions and i cant select them for anything nor refit. This is beyond annoying... Why cant we have simple battle groups in this game.

 

Change the ship status in the fleet panel.

[BrassBattleship]

21 minutes ago, o Barão said:

Change the ship status in the fleet panel.

I cant change the stance because the ships are stuck in endless different convoy missions every turn

[o Barão]

Just now, BrassBattleship said:

I cant change the stance because the ships are stuck in endless different convoy missions every turn

Run the battles, and before ending the turn you change the status. Works, no?

[Ascari]

Great work on the mod, been really enjoying it. 

I have one small question: In my 1890 campaign, playing as Germany and now in year 1897, none of the other nations have any BB or BC in there fleets. China has 6 but is very behind in technology. 

Does this have anything to do my normal difficulty setting or is this random? 

GDP and naval budget from France and England match mine and I have 20 BB.

[brothermunro]

13 hours ago, BrassBattleship said:

I cant change the stance because the ships are stuck in endless different convoy missions every turn

I’ve had this problem, if the ship is in port and the mission generates on your ‘turn’ (ie you can look around the map and pick which battles you want to fight) you can end the turn without fighting the battle so the ship doesn’t take damage and go into repairs and hopefully it doesn’t get dragged into a battle next turn so you can refit it.

[o Barão]

DD 1-4 rework preview W.I.P.

French destroyers.

French DD 1, inspired in the early XX century French destroyer hulls. Voltigeur class, among others.

 

French DD 2

 

French DD 3

 

French DD 4

 

Goals:

*To make an exclusive look for these nations:

• French
• Italy, Japan
• Britain, USA
• Germany, Austria
• Spain, China and Russia

*To force DD1 and DD2 hulls to use 3 or more funnels to have a good engine efficiency.

*To use historical references as a guideline if possible. As an example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigatori-class_destroyer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freccia-class_destroyer

Japanese tower designs and angled funnels in game.

 

*Remove double and triple bottom hulls from DDs

[Guest]

15 hours ago, BrassBattleship said:

Is it possible to change the fleet/ship stance from "Sea Control" to "In Being" after they go into any port for repairs or anything else, because the ships get stuck in constant missions and i cant select them for anything nor refit. This is beyond annoying... Why cant we have simple battle groups in this game.

 

Click a ship that isnt in a battle, then ctrl+click the ones you want to include. then change the stance of the ship that isnt in a battle

Edited December 20, 2023 by MDHansen

[BrassBattleship]

5 hours ago, brothermunro said:

I’ve had this problem, if the ship is in port and the mission generates on your ‘turn’ (ie you can look around the map and pick which battles you want to fight) you can end the turn without fighting the battle so the ship doesn’t take damage and go into repairs and hopefully it doesn’t get dragged into a battle next turn so you can refit it.

I have few fleets scattered around that i really want to refit or move somewhere else, while they are in port they`re stuck in endless missions since Im at war with 2-3 nations at the same time in the same regions and after battle they need repairs, so again i cant select them, and as soon as the repairs are done, they`re back being stuck in missions straight away. This system is so annoyingly broken its beyond me.. I cant understand why they didnt try making something like Total War army/fleet where you got your stack/battle group and you move it around the map attacking other fleets or whatever. You dont even have battle groups in this fleet game. It would somewhat mitigate the issue if your ships would move during your turn, then you at least would have some form of control. Again, why they have not done it this way.. Its as if they on purpose wanted to make this game as much player unfriendly as possible.

 

Watching you Italian Artisan Campaign at the moment, so hhanks for the content. The game would be more engaging if it wasnt so totally broken...

[Roachbugg]

6 hours ago, o Barão said:

DD 1-4 rework preview W.I.P.

French destroyers.

French DD 1, inspired in the early XX century French destroyer hulls. Voltigeur class, among others.

 

French DD 2

 

French DD 3

 

French DD 4

 

Goals:

*To make an exclusive look for these nations:

• French
• Italy, Japan
• Britain, USA
• Germany, Austria
• Spain, China and Russia

*To force DD1 and DD2 hulls to use 3 or more funnels to have a good engine efficiency.

*To use historical references as a guideline if possible. As an example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigatori-class_destroyer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freccia-class_destroyer

Japanese tower designs and angled funnels in game.

 

*Remove double and triple bottom hulls from DDs

These look beautiful One thing I've found I quite like on Austro-Hungarian DD's currently in my campaign is they get what I think are down scaled BB towers that can mount casemate guns which make them feel super unique compared to other nations DDs   

[Solitary]

7 hours ago, o Barão said:

DD 1-4 rework preview W.I.P.

French destroyers.

French DD 1, inspired in the early XX century French destroyer hulls. Voltigeur class, among others.

 

French DD 2

 

French DD 3

 

French DD 4

 

Goals:

*To make an exclusive look for these nations:

• French
• Italy, Japan
• Britain, USA
• Germany, Austria
• Spain, China and Russia

*To force DD1 and DD2 hulls to use 3 or more funnels to have a good engine efficiency.

*To use historical references as a guideline if possible. As an example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigatori-class_destroyer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freccia-class_destroyer

Japanese tower designs and angled funnels in game.

 

*Remove double and triple bottom hulls from DDs

Will later French DD's like Vauquelin and Le Fantasque be added with appropriate gun models?

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, Roachbugg said:

These look beautiful One thing I've found I quite like on Austro-Hungarian DD's currently in my campaign is they get what I think are down scaled BB towers that can mount casemate guns which make them feel super unique compared to other nations DDs   

That was the solution I found when I reworked the modern destroyers months ago to make them unique. I also gave the Germans the same tower.

1 hour ago, Solitary said:

Will later French DD's like Vauquelin and Le Fantasque be added with appropriate gun models?

No. Guns model in UAD are not ship exclusive, but ship class and nation. I tried my best to make every nation unique, and be at the same time as historical as possible, with some fantasy (all China and late era Spain). I am happy with the result and will not waste more time with that.

[Solitary]

3 hours ago, o Barão said:

That was the solution I found when I reworked the modern destroyers months ago to make them unique. I also gave the Germans the same tower.

No. Guns model in UAD are not ship exclusive, but ship class and nation. I tried my best to make every nation unique, and be at the same time as historical as possible, with some fantasy (all China and late era Spain). I am happy with the result and will not waste more time with that.

Will the hulls for the aforementioned DD's be added? 

[o Barão]

10 hours ago, Solitary said:

Will the hulls for the aforementioned DD's be added? 

You already have the hulls to build similar ships to those. This is a rework about the early DDs. 1900-1920.

[wwii44]

Some of the new hulls from the last major update have these weird boxy things(like in the included picture), you think possibly you could fix those when you have the time?