Cannon Units My Final Thoughts and Hope

[doublebuck]

My final thoughts on cannon units.  When I started playing this backer build many months ago my wonderful surprise was in land battles we can take over an enemy cannon unit and use it in that whole battle and if a war ship crew took that unit over when the battle ended we got the cannons in our inventory but not the unit however if we captured the enemy cannon unit with our transport ships marine units then that unit would become a cannon unit on our transport ship and I thought that was fantastic and that is the way it would be in real life.

Now, what I wrote above was taken away from us and I don't know the reasons why? Are you afraid it would break the economy? If so, then adjust the pricing of everything.

Sure, we can still capture the enemy cannon unit and use it in that current battle but we must remember before the battle ends to abandon it just so we might gain 1 or 2 cannons in our inventory which is sad when you consider we can capture say up to 20 guns and use them all in that battle so we have them as a part of our force but if we don't disband them before the timer runs out we get none of them which is not realistic.

If you don't want us to have a marine cannon unit if we don't have the tech then fine but pretty please let us keep all the cannons we captured and used in that battle as a reward and put them into our inventory (armory) of such like the rewards when we capture ships I would like to see that to be fair.

My point is, if I capture 10 cannons in a land battle and get to use them in that battle then they are mine and I should keep them as a reward so why can't you agree to this point?

If, in a sea battle I capture a ship so I get to use it in that battle just like the land cannon unit then it is mine in that battle and as the ship becomes a reward and shows up in my harbor as a trophy so all I am saying is it makes no sense to me if the enemy lost 10 cannons to me and I used them but now we have to disband it before the battle ends just to maybe get one cannon out of 10 which makes no sense and sucks!

Bottom line is, if I capture three enemy land cannon units which might total 9-12 cannons I don't see why we should now have to disband them by the end of battle and if we do that we might get 1 cannon in our harbor and that is the only way for the game to know we had them? 

All I want is, if I capture 12 cannons in a land battle then I should get all 12 of those cannons it's the only thing that makes sense to me and the game should know we captured them so we shouldn't have to disband all those cannon units before the battle ends and by doing that we might get 1 cannon woopy doo. I want all the cannons I capture just like all the ships I capture so please let me have them! Is this too much to ask for?

 

[pandakraut]

Summary:

1) If the player wins a battle unmanned cannons and manned cannons should count as captured.

2) you would like a 100% weapon recovery rate for captured cannon.

[doublebuck]

16 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

Summary:

1) If the player wins a battle unmanned cannons and manned cannons should count as captured.

2) you would like a 100% weapon recovery rate for captured cannon.

2) In UGCW, in every battle where the enemy had cannons and you destroyed them you always got a small percentage of their cannons sure not 100% though however, when this new game started the campaigns we got all the cannons because we took them over and used the cannon unit unlike what you can't do in UGCW.

My point is (land cannons) and (sea ships) are not prisoners so they should not be treated like prisoners like in the old game of UGCW and in this new game when we talk about prisoners and we get a small percentage of their guns.

In this new game I don't think of cannons as prisoners or treat them the same way like in the old game. UGCW prisoners percentages shouldn't be expected in this new game when it comes to (ships) and (land cannons).

It might be like apples and oranges sure they are fruit and games but these two games are different enough from each other. The reason we should get 100% of the cannons is because we get 100% of the ships we capture for they are a PHYSICAL ASSET that we use in the current battle so it is in 100% in our force unlike what you can't do in UGCW so you shouldn't expect the same standards.

You make it look like a sin for me wanting 100% of the land cannons I capture and use in that battle so in UGCW that would be a sin but not in this new game. If I have not made my case for this clear I don't know what else I could write?

[pandakraut]

I offered no opinion one way or the other. I simply restated your post in a shorter format for easier reading.

To clarify the UGCW mechanics:
In UGCW you recovered a percentage of weapons from all inflicted casualties. This percentage varied by difficulty. You also recovered a different percentage of weapons from any captured units. This capture recovery percentage also varied by difficulty. There were some bugs around the capture percentage that were fixed in mods, but that is what the original setup was. While cannons in UGCW can't be turned around and used when captured, it is possible to mod in allowing captures so that the player can obtain a higher recovery percentage.

Regarding captured ships. It is unfortunate that cannon that are damaged in battle are returned to the player for free on both their ships and captured ships. If it was harder for the player to maintain captured ships, the capture everything and only use trophy ships approach would be less of the optimal strategy. However supporting this this would lead to new problems due to the inability to mix cannon types in a specific slot and that the player often cannot purchase the cannons that are on captured ships.

[doublebuck]

1 hour ago, pandakraut said:

I offered no opinion one way or the other. I simply restated your post in a shorter format for easier reading.

To clarify the UGCW mechanics:
In UGCW you recovered a percentage of weapons from all inflicted casualties. This percentage varied by difficulty. You also recovered a different percentage of weapons from any captured units. This capture recovery percentage also varied by difficulty. There were some bugs around the capture percentage that were fixed in mods, but that is what the original setup was. While cannons in UGCW can't be turned around and used when captured, it is possible to mod in allowing captures so that the player can obtain a higher recovery percentage.

Regarding captured ships. It is unfortunate that cannon that are damaged in battle are returned to the player for free on both their ships and captured ships. If it was harder for the player to maintain captured ships, the capture everything and only use trophy ships approach would be less of the optimal strategy. However supporting this this would lead to new problems due to the inability to mix cannon types in a specific slot and that the player often cannot purchase the cannons that are on captured ships.

Fine and dandy, but I think you are wrong with no disrespect to you.  I don't care about the UGCW mechanics that are not apart of this new game that they moved on to so they walked away and you as a modder you do your thing with that old game but I am not sure what you do in this new game but the part I think you're wrong about is when it comes to the 100% ships that we capture as rewards regardless of any mechanic.

Currently there is no need for the player to have ship cannons in the shop slot for when you unlock the ship with rep you must repair it and when you do that, if it was missing 5 guns on that ship the game auto restores them as it is a part of the cost to you so that ship after you repaired becomes 100%.  It's just like rifles in the shop if you don't have enough rifles there is a generic unlimited rifles for you to make a unit.  In the end you put an officer and crew on it that ship and it is your 100%.

I don't like double standards when it comes to ships and land cannon units.  As for land cannon units that we captured we own them why can't you see that I am not asking to have that unit in my navy though I would like it as it use to be but what I want is to make sure that we get to keep all those cannons we used in that battle as rewards for us.

I could even make a case that if I capture 500 prisoners I should get a high percentage of their rifles for that would happen in the real world.

I don't know what problems they had with land cannon units and why they changed it but I think it's a lack of being productive or creative.  There are only a few things involved in a land battle. Supply wagons, cannon units, and infantry, did I forget any thing?  How hard can it be?

Infantry that are captured ok you only want us to have a % like in old UGCW fine but don't treat supply wagons and cannons like that for that is being a double standard compared to how they deal with 100% rewards for the ships we capture and use.

Come Panda, you have to agree that currently disbanding a captured cannon unit just before the battle ends just to maybe get 1 or 2 cannons in you armory is lame. Are you aware if you forget to do that even though you captured 10 cannons you get no credit for capturing them and you get zero cannons from that battle I know it because it has happened to me.

[doublebuck]

I don't think they should use the same mechanic of sea and land they are both different so what your telling me is the DEVs here may fall to the same problems like they did with UGCW when they went away after three patches if I remember correctly. I don't see how hard it could be if you can program that I captured a ship and that ship is 100% mine as long as I keep it I could sell it or rep it and repair it and if I did that it is mine so if you can program that then I think you could also program land units such as supply wagon and cannon units you could treat them the same way as you do with ships.  It is as simple as a unit on the ocean or land.  I guess it looks to me like the DEV is taken the easy way instead of the better productive way.  Go back two months they could do it then but not now?

[WilliamTheIII]

55 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

I don't like double standards when it comes to ships and land cannon units.  As for land cannon units that we captured we own them why can't you see that I am not asking to have that unit in my navy though I would like it as it use to be but what I want is to make sure that we get to keep all those cannons we used in that battle as rewards for us.

For mechanical reasons, capturing a ship and not having its cannons come along with it would mess with a lot of things and its just easier for it to work as it does. For cannons, you have to understand that capturing 100% of them will break game balance and is bad game play. 

55 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

I don't care about the UGCW mechanics that are not apart of this new game

They very much are, most of the code is carryover and has been adapted to fit this game 😕

55 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

I could even make a case that if I capture 500 prisoners I should get a high percentage of their rifles for that would happen in the real world.

You do receive a higher percentage from captured units. And for the love of God, please stop saying "would happen in the real world". This isn't a movie but a game. A game based on history still needs to have the primary focus be on good gameplay and not realism to a fault. This is very possibly the worst argument that could be provided for any request.

55 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

I don't know what problems they had with land cannon units and why they changed it but I think it's a lack of being productive or creative.

Forcing the player to lose a unit in place for another unit is stupid. Even if you would want to convert your marines into artillery, you are essentially cheating the system by receiving a free and cheaper unit instead of creating one.

55 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

Come Panda, you have to agree that currently disbanding a captured cannon unit just before the battle ends just to maybe get 1 or 2 cannons in you armory is lame. Are you aware if you forget to do that even though you captured 10 cannons you get no credit for capturing them and you get zero cannons from that battle I know it because it has happened to me.

As I have mentioned time and time again on your posts, this is most likely an unintended consequence of not being able to capture artillery in vanilla UGCW. The game thinks that the captured artillery units is actually yours to begin with and therefore doesn't register it as captured and thus you receive no pieces from it. Hopefully this will get fixed when the devs have some free time. Constantly complaining about it isn't going to make it come any faster.

41 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

I don't think they should use the same mechanic of sea and land they are both different

You literally just said how you think that they should work the same. This was the reasoning used to justify 100% artillery capture.

41 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

UGCW when they went away after three patches if I remember correctly

Mate go read the update history and then come back to this.

41 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

I guess it looks to me like the DEV is taken the easy way instead of the better productive way.

False, they are making good gameplay decisions.

41 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

Go back two months they could do it then but not now?

I can almost guarantee that the feature of having your units convert into artillery after the battle was unintentional.

55 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

if it was missing 5 guns on that ship the game auto restores them as it is a part of the cost to you so that ship after you repaired becomes 100%

I don't think the repair cost actually takes into account your gun losses. Mainly just your hull, sail, and armor. Has been tested and the results seem to indicate that it does not. The only possibility is if the guns are being heavily discounted.

Edited February 12, 2020 by WilliamTheIII

[pandakraut]

47 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

I don't care about the UGCW mechanics

You brought them up and stated you were unsure of how it worked, so I provided confirmation of how they worked. My apologies.

4 hours ago, doublebuck said:

2) In UGCW, in every battle where the enemy had cannons and you destroyed them you always got a small percentage of their cannons sure not 100% though however, when this new game started the campaigns we got all the cannons because we took them over and used the cannon unit unlike what you can't do in UGCW.

 

51 minutes ago, doublebuck said:

if it was missing 5 guns on that ship the game auto restores them as it is a part of the cost to you so that ship after you repaired becomes 100%.

This does not appear to be how the game is functioning. I just tested with a ship that was captured with 2 damaged guns and very low hull damage. The ship was equipped with 6pdr armstrongs which cost 53 per gun with no purchase discounts. The ship costs 96 to repair total. If any cost is being charged for replacing cannon it is at an extremely steep discount.

 

[doublebuck]

William, I have no clue about you.  In my main point I am not talking about ships cannons so get that out of your head!  You guys play the game and I do too and I have played many campaigns.  Once the campaigns were put into this game I have been playing them all so I have witnessed all the changes.

The only war ships that doesn't come with cannons is the freaking ones you buy from the shop so William, stop putting words into my mouth!  I never said or wanted a war ship that I captured to not have any guns so please get with the program! 

If I capture a ship it is my reward if I capture a land cannon unit it is not my reward and I want it and it would not break the game so are you saying all the ships that we capture break the game? NO!!!!!!!! So that is a double standard!!!!

Whether it's a discount to repair a gun on a ship you capture as part of the cost is if the DEV didn't think about that and gave us a discount so what my point on this issue that it is a non issue to me. Look at the Title.

Let a DEV say if something is cheating or unintentional not you!

Land cannon units are not prisoners and shouldn't be treated as such in this game and I said I don't care that they changed that my marines can no longer convert to cannon units like they did earlier.  All I am saying is land cannon units should be treated like ships which are 100% reward which doesn't break the game. 

William must be on a power trip!

Edited February 14, 2020 by doublebuck

[WilliamTheIII]

2 hours ago, doublebuck said:

William, I have no clue about you.  In my main point I am not talking about ships cannons so get that out of your head!  You guys play the game and I do too and I have played many campaigns.  Once the campaigns were put into this game I have been playing them all so I have witnessed all the changes.

The only war ships that doesn't come with cannons is the freaking ones you buy from the shop so William, stop putting words into my mouth!  I never said or wanted a war ship that I captured to not have any guns so please get with the program! 

I can see how what I said could be interpreted this way although it wasn't my intention so I apologize. I was more meaning to explain why trophy ships come with all their cannons as it makes sense and is honestly the easiest way to handle things. In the process, I was trying to explain why the "double standard" exists.

Also, we have discussed this topic at length and really has gone no where and at this point it is best to agree to disagree.

[doublebuck]

William, you have countered me in nearly every post that I make about this game. Take some tips from what Panda writes, he, is a true diplomat and you aren't and neither am I so yes, we will agree to disagree for I don't like you at all!

Always read the Title of the post. This was for Hope meaning maybe a DEV would read this before the game is totally made and just maybe he would consider or even understand where I am coming from on this issue about land cannon units and how I see them equal to captured ships as rewards only in this new game.

This issue, topic was to be the last time I would bring this up but of course you had to stick your nose into this because that is your personality here which reminds me it is similar to a dictator so maybe just maybe I could compare you to two historical men of how they were when they were just starting out, Hitler and Stalin.

Edited February 15, 2020 by doublebuck