Новый Патч в игре это Жуткая Скука - New Patch experience is Terribly Boring

[Tenet]

English version below.

Вкратце:

- Формулы риска и вознаграждения в игре все поломаны. Вознаграждение за бои почти не существует, а Боевые Капитаны в огромном невыгодном положении по сравнению с Трейдерами

- Запускать Экономику без начальных вливаний это не-реалистично и глупо - ГДЕ ИСТОРИЧЕСКИЕ СТАРТАП ИНВЕСТИЦИИ? 
- Торговое меню смехотворно плохо разработано с игрой, не играемой без сетевых инструментов. Нет способа сортировки как по производству и по расстояниям (simultaneously). 
- Экономика, движимая игроками, чрезвычайно раздроблена в зависимости от кланов и регионов, а некоторые регионы имеют огромное преимущество перед другими

- Опыт нового игрока ужасен, а "бесплатные корабли" оскорбительно бесполезны без экипировки. 

Опыт нового игрока, простая арифметика: 

Загнивание в Базовой Лодке - скучной одиночнои мачте. Первые 12 до 9001 миссий не имеют риска, потому что вы получаете все оборудование бесплатно, а награда - 6000 + 1500 золота за миссию. Ремонтные работы также бесплатны, поэтому вы можете выполнять 3 миссии за один выход ~22К без каких-либо дополнительных затрат.

Тогда вы должны получить достаточно денег на 6-й Реит, который обойдется вам в 23К корабля и ~ 70К пушек и ~10К+ за ремонты корпуса. Ваш доход за миссию увеличивается всего до ~ 9000 + 2500 (minus repairs!), а ваш РИСК поднимается до ВСЕГО ПРОГРЕССА, который вы делали раньше. Если вы попали на абордаж или в миссии против двух кораблей, или вы проиграли битву, все ваше ~ ~90K+ золота,  корабль и снаряжения потеряно, и вам нужно снова начать с нуля. Зачем рисковать всем когда можно гнобит себя в Базовой Лодке еще 9001 сражений? 

Вы не можете захватить корабли NPC - весь корабль, мачты которого вы тщательно отстреляли, тщательно взяли на абордаж, часто дает ноль дополнительной прибыли, так как все ее супер дорогие пушки волшебным образом исчезают, а весь корабль оказывается мнимым.

Я понимаю причины - чтобы не надувать экономику миссиями. Почему не давать захватывать корабли NPC Fleet в открытом мире, по крайней мере, 6-го уровня или ниже? Почему награда за боевые успехи настолько низкая по сравнению с риском? По сравнению с AFK торговлей? Кто придумал что заставить всех Боевиков подчиниться донату клана или Базовой Лодке - хорошая идея для роста населения открытого мира?

English - In brief:

- The Risk versus Reward formulas in the game are all messed up. The reward for doing well in battle is near non-existant, with Fighting captains at a huge disadvantage compared to Traders

- Starting up a player driven economy without startup capital is ridiculous. Where is the HISTORICAL VENTURE CAPITAL INVESTMENT? 

- The trading menu is ridiculously poorly designed with game unplayable without offline tools. There is no way to sort by both Production and Lowest-Distance, for example. There is no easy comparison of prices or profit potential. 

- The player driven economy is extremely broken depending on clans and regions, with some regions at a huge early advantage compared to others

- The New Player or Returning Player experience is Horrible and the Redeemable Ships are insultingly useless without cannons

Returning player experience:

You start out stuck rotting in the Basic Cutter. The first 10-12 missions have No Risk because you get all the equipment for free, and the reward is ~ 6000 + 1500 gold per mission. Repairs are also free, so you can do 3 missions per trip with no extra cost. Then you should get enough money for a 6th rate which costs you ~23K for the ship and ~70K for Cannons and 10K in hull repairs. Your income per mission rises to ONLY ~9000+2500 per mission (minus repairs!), and your RISK rises to the ENTIRE PROGRESS you made before. If you get boarded or unluckily raked in a mission against two ships, or you lose a close fight, your entire ~90K of ship and equipment are lost and you need to start in the Basic Cutter again. 

You cannot capture NPC ships - the entire ship you carefully de-masted, carefully raked and boarded, can easily provide 0 extra profit, since all her super expensive cannons magically disappear, and the entire ship proves imaginary. I understand the reasons - to avoid inflating the economy - but whey aren't the Open World NPC's capturable, at least the ones of 6th rate or below? 

Why are the rewards for Combat so low in comparison to the risk? 

Who thought that forcing all Fighting Captains into Clan donations or Basic Cutter servitude is a good idea to grow the Open World population?

This type of "Hunger Game" will lead to the bottom percentile of players constantly burning out and leaving until there is no foundation and no prey for the top percentile to hunt. The result will be starvation for everyone, and a gradual decline. 

The game needs a growth in player base, not a starvation diet. Learn from EVE and figure this out fast.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by Tenet

[Dennis Moore]

Формулы риска и вознаграждения в игре все поломаны. Вознаграждение за бои почти не существует, а Боевые Капитаны в огромном невыгодном положении по сравнению с Трейдерами

Может вы как-то неправильно воюете? Да и если вы начинаете говорить про историчность, то боевые кэптены не особо блистали богатством, только самые удачливые, захватывавшие богатые призы. А если сравнивать риск, то торговцы рискуют куда больше, плавая на невооруженых, загруженных и медленных кораблях.

Тогда вы должны получить достаточно денег на 6-й Реит, который обойдется вам в 23К корабля и ~ 70К пушек и ~10К+ за ремонты корпуса.

Мы за 70к в своем сообществе снаряжаем пушками Indefatigable. Не максимального калибра, но позволяющими в одиночку вывезти с миссии 50-70к.

Если вы попали на абордаж или в миссии против двух кораблей, или вы проиграли битву, все ваше ~ ~90K+ золота,  корабль и снаряжения потеряно, и вам нужно снова начать с нуля.

Возможно стоит избегать абордажа и объединяться с другими кэптенами? Гордым одиночкам везде тяжело.

[Tenet]

25 minutes ago, Dennis Moore said:

Может вы как-то неправильно воюете? Да и если вы начинаете говорить про историчность, то боевые кэптены не особо блистали богатством, только самые удачливые, захватывавшие богатые призы. А если сравнивать риск, то торговцы рискуют куда больше, плавая на невооруженых, загруженных и медленных кораблях.

Captains on blockade or port duty may not have been rich, but Privateer Captains and Navy Captains during Wars could become very rich very fast by capturing enemy ships. A captain received 3/8 of the value of the captured ship and it's cargo, so in 3-4 successful battles he could have enough money to equip ship equivalent to the captures. 

If a Navy Captain captured a ship that is taken into service, and it's close to his rank, he would often be on first priority to captain that very ship if it's better than his own. 

Naval Action should have an implementation of Naval Careers, of the Admiralty and service list. 

Traders aren't forced to fight for every meal, if they trade far enough away from the action, or within allied waters, they are perfectly safe, and their profits far surpass the fighters. 

Trading goods easily provide 25% profit per unit bough, and even early level runs can surpass fighting captain profits at Money/Hour. A loaded Trader ship worth 100K will return at least 25K profit, if not more, on most trading goods, while a similarly priced Fighting ship will get at most 11K, and be forced to return to port or lose most profit to repair costs. 

 

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Мы за 70к в своем сообществе снаряжаем пушками Indefatigable. Не максимального калибра, но позволяющими в одиночку вывезти с миссии 50-70к.

You are either very lucky in your map position or misleading. Fabricating cannons does make them cheaper, but not as much as you claim unless someone is not accounting for their hours-spent. There is some form of time donation going on with your numbers. 

 

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Возможно стоит избегать абордажа и объединяться с другими кэптенами? Гордым одиночкам везде тяжело.

Proud loners can do pretty well for themselves in EVE and many other open-world games. They may not reach the level of profitability of corporations, but they can definitely easily fund their own Privateering. Games can have rewards for doing well, while still having punishment for mistakes.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Tenet

[Dennis Moore]

A captain received 3/8 of the value of the captured ship and it's cargo, so in 3-4 successful battles he could have enough money to equip ship equivalent to the captures. 

Not all captains became rich, encounters with ships, and especially with profitable prizes were quite rare. It is only luck and will of chance.

Fabricating cannons does make them cheaper, but not as much as you claim unless someone is not accounting for their hours-spent. There is some form of time donation going on with your numbers. 

Production of a 12 pd medium cannon costs ≈1240 gold for me, I sell it to my captains for 1500 gold, this is more than twice as cheaper than at shop (3486 gold). I'm interested in supplying my captains with cheap cannons. If I want to get money, I sell guns in a shop or go to do fleet missions for Master and Commander. 

They may not reach the level of profitability of corporations, but they can definitely easily fund their own Privateering.

In the game, you can get from the NPC valuable trading goods, upgrades, cannons, repairs. Do you know about the possibility to capture hold from sinking ships? Also you can fishing, it gives free fish (some fish are expensive in the shop), salt and sea bottles with shipwreck location.

[Tenet]

 

1 hour ago, Dennis Moore said:

Production of a 12 pd medium cannon costs ≈1240 gold for me, I sell it to my captains for 1500 gold, this is more than twice as cheaper than at shop (3486 gold). I'm interested in supplying my captains with cheap cannons. If I want to get money, I sell guns in a shop or go to do fleet missions for Master and Commander. 

Why are you providing the example of smaller caliber cannons than the ship requires? I knew something was fishy about 70K instead of the 250K at store prices.  It's also a distraction because we're not talking 5th Rates here, the problem is with the 6th rates and people beginning the game or recovering from mistakes. The exact situation that causes people to stay in the game or leave it. It's not about people like YOU, it's about the people that we want to feed on. 

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They may not reach the level of profitability of corporations, but they can definitely easily fund their own Privateering.

In the game, you can get from the NPC valuable trading goods, upgrades, cannons, repairs. Do you know about the possibility to capture hold from sinking ships? Also you can fishing, it gives free fish (some fish are expensive in the shop), salt and sea bottles with shipwreck location.

Yes, Mr. Patronizing, I am aware that there's a TINY CHANCE of getting 1x Cannon in the hold, out of the 30+ the ship had. I've captured ships and checked holds of sinking ships at every opportunity, it's not frequent enough to matter. 

If we could get even 30% of the cannons of a sinking or captured ship reliably, the game would be far more reasonable.

I am fine if these mechanics are tier limited to the lower tiers, since high tiers should be less forgiving. 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Tenet

[Dennis Moore]

Why are you providing the example of smaller caliber cannons than the ship requires?

Maybe smaller caliber for some situations is the best solution? Bigger does not mean better. Particularly if you don't have enough money.

[Tenet]

8 minutes ago, Dennis Moore said:

Why are you providing the example of smaller caliber cannons than the ship requires?

Maybe smaller caliber for some situations is the best solution? Bigger does not mean better. Particularly if you don't have enough money.

It matters when you are trying to prove a point and lying to me that you "fully equip" your dudes for 70K per Indef and you're actually misleading about the prices. I've researched it now and it's not that simple - the cannons for that ship will take 50% of your daily account labor hours for one ship - more if charcoal is made by the same crafter. There's also the cost and actual time of sailing to gather resources. 

You are omitting a lot of costs AND reducing the caliber in your example, which makes it a false argument. 

Everything is indeed too expensive and the rewards are too low. 

[Dennis Moore]

I just noticed that set of 4-6 pd cannons for 6th rate will cost less than 12pd guns for Indefatigable. You also missed this sentence:

6 hours ago, Dennis Moore said:

Не максимального калибра (Not the maximum caliber), но позволяющими в одиночку вывезти с миссии 50-70к.

Now, there are not many people involved in production, but over time more cannons and materials will appear on the market at a cheaper price. You should't panic right after the release of the patch.