Shiloh - Outrunning McClernand's Division?

[The Soldier]

So, something I noticed playing Shiloh again for the umpteenth time.  I ambush, surround, and almost destroy the Federal's right flank in the marsh, then get teleported to the Union's left flank to deal with them.  I wheel my brigades, march them up and road, and take a little longer than usual to capture Spain Field - then suddenly, 3 or 4 brigades come out of nowhere that I have never, ever seen before.  The notification says that McClernand has arrived - I have actually never seen these brigades before in all my playthroughs of Shiloh as the Confederates.

I suspect this is because, most of the time, I ninja Spain Field so quickly that the next phase (defending Shiloh Church against a Union counter-attack) rolls around before the Union reinforcements get a chance to arrive on the field, and they don't have a chance to reach the field after that.  This battle with McClernand's division on the field was decidedly more difficult than the other times I'd played Shiloh, not just because I had to face considerably more men, but because the enemy delayed my advance long enough for the other AI's reinforcements to spawn and occupy the fortifications that I'd never had to face before.  The AI's army as well as mine took a bigger beating then they ever had gotten in previous games.  If there are any other times where a phase can end before reinforcements arrive, this is probably an issue.

[Wandering1]

The notification for enemy reinforcements arriving does not occur until you actually see a brigade of the reinforcements for the first time; meaning that if you hit the appropriate timer, the divisions will spawn regardless. Whether you can skip the event because you forced a phase change quickly or not? That I haven't had the opportunity to test, mostly because the easy way of getting around the reinforcements is to draw the Union army away from Hornet's Nest, using parked brigades on the right to instantly run up to Hornet's Nest the moment the phase change happens again (before the enemy can move up to Hornet's Nest to take position).

Edited March 16, 2017 by Wandering1

[The Soldier]

7 minutes ago, Wandering1 said:

The notification for enemy reinforcements arriving does not occur until you actually see a brigade of the reinforcements for the first time; meaning that if you hit the appropriate timer, the divisions will spawn regardless. Whether you can skip the event because you forced a phase change quickly or not? That I haven't had the opportunity to test, mostly because the easy way of getting around the reinforcements is to draw the Union army away from Hornet's Nest, using parked brigades on the right to instantly run up to Hornet's Nest the moment the phase change happens again (before the enemy can move up to Hornet's Nest to take position).

I always park my brigades right up in the treeline after I clear out  the western side of the map, so if anyone does come, I'd be notified immediately.  However, like I said before, I had never, ever gotten that notification for McClernand's division arriving, and I had never faced any of his troops, on that phase or any after it.  This is a problem.

[Wandering1]

5 minutes ago, The Soldier said:

I always park my brigades right up in the treeline after I clear out  the western side of the map, so if anyone does come, I'd be notified immediately.  However, like I said before, I had never, ever gotten that notification for McClernand's division arriving, and I had never faced any of his troops, on that phase or any after it.  This is a problem.

Well, that sounds like you're skipping the reinforcements arriving. I typically end up running the timer on the first part of the right flank just to make sure all of the reinforcements have time to walk (not run) up to the northern edge of the map.

[The Soldier]

2 minutes ago, Wandering1 said:

Well, that sounds like you're skipping the reinforcements arriving. I typically end up running the timer on the first part of the right flank just to make sure all of the reinforcements have time to walk (not run) up to the northern edge of the map.

Yep, pretty much, I outrun the Union's reinforcements.  I run my men breathless in the first phase so I can boot Stewart out of his forward position in the forest and not get bothered by time.  I then have something like 3.5 hours to capture and secure the Hornet's Nest, so after I'm done sweeping up my rear, I just position my men just outside of musket range and rest them up for an hour, after which I charge in, capture it, and move on.

Still, completely denying the enemy an entire division or two of reinforcements feels like cheating the game.

[Wandering1]

1 minute ago, The Soldier said:

Yep, pretty much, I outrun the Union's reinforcements.  I run my men breathless in the first phase so I can boot Stewart out of his forward position in the forest and not get bothered by time.  I then have something like 3.5 hours to capture and secure the Hornet's Nest, so after I'm done sweeping up my rear, I just position my men just outside of musket range and rest them up for an hour, after which I charge in, capture it, and move on.

Still, completely denying the enemy an entire division or two of reinforcements feels like cheating the game.

Well, I'm not sure if 'skipping' them really just means they start at Hornet's Nest instead. I'm avoiding having to fight for Hornet's Nest in the first place, because in the higher difficulties, the NPC army does not scale with the 1.5 multiplier for the Union units. Meaning that you'll always lose a straight fight when trying to charge 2500+ brigades sitting on Hornet's Nest.

[The Soldier]

Like I said, I've never seen McClernand's division on the field before today - that includes the rest of the battle on the first day, they just never were there.

[Wandering1]

Perhaps that was a bug fix to ensure that the division actually spawned, if someone forcefully pushed the timer?

 

[Col_Kelly]

Was Veatch brigade among McLernand division ? Just came out of Shiloh and when the battle teleported me back to the Union left flank (after I previously went back to Shiloh church) I had several brigades charging me right from the beginning as they spawned. Maybe this is the same division you're talking about.  

[The Soldier]

14 minutes ago, Col_Kelly said:

Was Veatch brigade among McLernand division ? When the battle teleported me back to the Union left flank (after I previously went back to Shiloh church) I had several brigades charging me right from the beginning as they spawned. I assume this is the same division you're talking about.  

Not in a position to open up UG:CW and check that (I only remember facing way more brigades at the end of the second phase and at the Hornet's Nest than I remember in the six or so other times I'd played), but the Union Order of Battle for Shiloh says it wasn't part of McClernand's division.

Edited March 16, 2017 by The Soldier

[A. P. Hill]

I've seen and bested McClernan after his spawn, it's usually after I break the Hornets Nest and am reorganizing my line to assault the breastworks.  His troops come pouring over the barricades and into my right.  The first time it happened it was a bit of a shock, and my left had just taken out Buell and was pushing the remnants of the Union back to the river bank, my left came in behind McClernan and aided my right which was slowly melting ... eventually both wings managed to gather enough strength to overwhelm and push the yankees into the river.

[The Soldier]

29 minutes ago, A. P. Hill said:

I've seen and bested McClernan after his spawn, it's usually after I break the Hornets Nest and am reorganizing my line to assault the breastworks.  His troops come pouring over the barricades and into my right.  The first time it happened it was a bit of a shock, and my left had just taken out Buell and was pushing the remnants of the Union back to the river bank, my left came in behind McClernan and aided my right which was slowly melting ... eventually both wings managed to gather enough strength to overwhelm and push the yankees into the river.

Buell?  Is that the second day?  I'm not sure if you beat McClernand by capturing Spain Field, if he'll appear on the second day, although it seems reasonable that he would since all your troops are deployed regardless by that time.  This is all about the first day.

Edited March 16, 2017 by The Soldier

[A. P. Hill]

Buell comes in very late on the first day ... just as he does in history.  He comes out of the swamps in the upper left of the map.

[The Soldier]

13 minutes ago, A. P. Hill said:

Buell comes in very late on the first day ... just as he does in history.  He comes out of the swamps in the upper left of the map.

Not all of his army, anyway.  And not Buell himself, if I remember from the game.

Are you sure McClernand's troops come with Buell's if he doesn't make it to Spain and Larkin Bell Field?  They should honestly be at the Hornet's Nest if they didn't make it to the initial defense.

Also; McClernand's name is annoying as hell to type out.

Edited March 16, 2017 by The Soldier