Never Surrender and Nerfed Confederates

[R.E.B.Blunt]

I believe the difficulty has been fixed. The AI is much more difficult since the last update. AI retreats towards the rear of their own line instead of retreating towards your line. Cannons seem to stay put and fire when you tell them to fire on the enemy, instead of charging. I do believe the Developers have found the sweet spot.

 

I would still like to see more damage given to the routing brigades if they are being shot at or run into a static brigade. Since they will not surrender.

 

Also a in depth after battle report  would be a great addition. The victories/defeats seem to be empty. Would love to see a after battle report that shows the kill/death of each brigade.

[David Fair]

Reisman17, in a game different qualities can be assigned to the terrain "cover" levels and advantages given to the troops occupying these positions without assigning an arbitrary point value to holding a specific the hill. If the Union army had fought on Culp's Hill/Cemetery Hill/Cemetery Ridge line on the morning of July 1 would the morale of the Union Army been worse at the start of the battle?

Meade debated fighting at Gettysburg or in Maryland. Longstreet argued with Lee to bypass Gettysburg and fight defensively on the precise field that Meade had selected in Maryland. Defensive terrain is advantageous and battlefields are selected based on the terrain qualities. Logically would either army had been demoralized if they chosen to fight in Maryland vs. Gettysburg?

It is true that getting forced off of defensive terrain impacts troop morale; but, it is the troops in the fight, not the army in total, that loses morale by the loss of specific terrain in a battle. Armies frequently redeploy to new positions based on the loss of key ground. I need to think more to argue that there is a tangible morale cause and effect loss from taking up strong defensive positions further back. In my mind both Gettysburg and Waterloo suggest relocation does not degrade morale. As long as the new ground is defensible it is difficult to argue that the loss of a previous position had an impact on morale that could not be recovered.

It is true that over time continual retreating has a degrading effect on morale. For example in the Atlanta Campaign Sherman's flanking movements eventually degraded the army's confidence in Joe Johnston; but, when these troops fought for Johnston they fought ferociously. It was not until Hood was placed in command that the rank and file understood the value of Johnston.

It is already the case in UGG that if you lose too many VP locations you lose the game. It is easy to end the game in Phase 2 as the Union by capturing/holding VP locations including Herr's Ridge. Note that the battle ends without the involvement of the CSA's I Corps. This is why the VP system is problematic - it interferes with playing the game.

[kondor999]

I also feel the AI improved substantially with the last patch, although I can still pretty much wipe the floor with the AI at this point, regardless of which side I take.

 

I still feel UGG has the potential to be a real game-changer in the way Sid Meier's games always were.  Just for sake of comparison, I've gone back and played SM Gettysburg again and It just isn't nearly as good as this game.  I've never seen a Gettysburg game before that gave you the ability to manage the entire battle in a fairly realistic manner and yet not be overwhelming.  Added to that is the fact that the game is pausable real-time.  

 

UGG is already a real achievement, and I have no doubt that the devs are listening and will eventually iron out the wrinkles.

 

This having been said, there's still a ways to go, especially with regards to the "wandering brigades way behind enemy lines" problem.  

 

As far as the VP structure goes, it seems clear to me that they're going off the system that was present in SMG (Sid Meier's Gettysburg).  I think it would be more interesting to implement a system where all the important terrain has a VP value, thereby avoiding a tendency to over-focus on just 2 or 3 patches of ground.  That would also dilute the AI'ls tendency to go for a last-minute kamikaze run way behind enemy lines just to grab a frequently meaningless VP location.

[David Fair]

Reisman17, after considering terrain I's suggest there is a difference between terrain in an individual battle and terrain in the course of a campaign.

On the battlefield terrain assists the tactical capabilities of troops with LOS, height advantage, and natural breastwork positions. The loss of terrain tactically is closely tied to the attributes of the position. For example, for the Union, I'd argue that Culp's Hill was the most valuable terrain at Gettysburg, followed by Cemetery Ridge, then Little Round Top.

It was not so much the geographic features of the hills themselves as the actions that influence my thought.

By the morning of July 2 the Union breastworks on Culp's Hill were stout enough and the position dominant enough relative to the other terrain in the area that the Union could drive the CSA artillery attack off of Benner's Hill and easily withstand Ewell's attacks inflicting 2.5 to 1 casualties on the CSA. Note that other than General Greene the Union leaders on Culp's Hill did not expect that Culp's Hill would anchor the Union line. Greene was not ordered to build breastworks - he was a graduate of West Point and a Civil Engineer by training and the amount of debris on Culp's Hill provided ample materials to rapidly prepare robust breastworks. Greene took the initiative and the defense of Culp's Hill is history.

Cemetery Ridge was valuable as an artillery platform. It was not as high as either of the Round Tops. It was not covered with debris for breastworks. But, it did have a continuous line of stone walls that helped shelter and stay men's nerves while they were under an artillery barrage for about an hour on July 3. Cemetery Ridge allowed the Union to even the casualty count when Lee planned and ordered Longstreet to attack the center of the Union Line. Effectively ending Lee's Gettysburg campaign.

Little Round Top was a poor artillery platform. Only 2 of the guns in the Rittenhouse battery (formerly Hazlett's) could fire during Pickett's Charge. The topography of the hill limited the effectiveness of the guns to support the Union defense of Little Round Top.

While Big Round Top was higher than Little Round Top it was militarily less valuable because it was covered in trees to such an extend that a road would need to be built to get guns to its top. Additionally, LOS was obscured by the foliage. Finally, it played no role at Gettysburg.

Strategically troops that abandon advantageous terrain over the course of a campaign eventually suffer morale tension and possibly morale loss. Johnston's conduct in the Atlanta campaign caused tremendous tension all the way up to Jeff Davis. Eventually Johnston was replaced. However, troops that fight from advantageous terrain then falling back seem to be extraordinarily resilient. The Germans retreat in Italy is a good example.

Need to run...

[Adrian]

So when will be surrender enemy units  and cannons in game?

[WesleyBarras]

Aye, I'll add my voice to this as well, as this expertly modified screenshot will show, it's a bit of a problem. 

 

 

My troops (green) advanced from rose woods, and broke the Union line which was in the green circle. However Cross's regiment (red) routed through my men then reformed and harassed my artillery for the duration of the battle. This had the added irritation of drawing most of my reserve artillery's fire. Fire which was needed for the Union reinforcements. 

This scenario has happened to me 15+ times and has cost me games. As soon as the routed force has regained then they can hit your flank. 

[Zelekendel]

Victory points for VLs is a good point to bring up to discussion. I think the points should only matter in isolated scenarios and otherwise their impact is in determining the next battle. This is because there are no lines of supply / lines of retreat.

 

In the campaign battle game, the only VLs that should give VLs regarding the final campaign victory should be the ones that block an enemy's line of retreat and directly cause the enemy's surrender  / abandoning of arms or supply, or scattering as a result.