Brigade movement at Battle Start

[jimcarrel]

At the risk of future reputation.
I'm going to use Union Campaign and River Crossing battle as example for this .

Considering the intermittent conversations we've had about moving troops to a desired staging area, it seems that since we all appreciate micromanaging (or at least most), that is our current problem. I think that the game engine is always in what I will call "Brigade Mode".

For example, when you start the battle, more than likely (but not always) you want to move brigades not as a whole, but in two different groups. Possibly a small feint to the West of the river near the top VP and the majority of brigades south down through the valley and then across the river to Southern VP. 

In order to do this the game engine is focused on individual brigade selection and movement.."Brigade Mode". Let us say you want to move everything you have down the valley to the South and then across the river to the Southern VP. You can select everything you have and draw a desired layout on the East side of the river near the lower VP, but the problem with that is that individual brigades take a straight path resulting in them going in a straight line through areas that you don't want them to go. In order to accomplish this movement in a strategical way, you have to individually select each brigade and draw a path for them. (and I might add that it rarely results in a military type movement)

You cannot select everything you have and designate a movement path for the whole force, by columns, to follow. (for example, down through the valley to the South).

Furthermore, you cannot individually select a group of brigades and move by defining a path for the selected group of brigades (in column) to a desired location.

First off, in reflection, this can probably only apply to battle start (original staging area), but what I'm proposing is a key to enable "Brigade" or "Force" selections. I'm just not sure what the ramifications would be if enabled through entire battle.

"Brigade mode" or default mode would allow selection of individual brigades (as it is now) and drawing individual paths.

A new "Force mode" that would allow picking all brigades in the staging box or a group of individually selected brigades and moving that selection ,by columns, by the path drawn.

I freely admit this has pros and cons. It could thrill micro-managers by hurting your commands by you forgetting which mode you are in (which could be negated by making Force mode a one time use after clicking, in other words you click the Force mode command and it is abandoned once path is drawn, but then if path is incorrect, you'd have to remember to click Force again or it wouldn't work, this would be a con)

I've not seen anything like this suggested and I may be totally out in la-la land (a.k.a. just a load of ka-ka), but I can sort of see some posts kind of suggesting a need for this type of control, it could possibly sort out some of the movement problems.

As far as including this type of control, I pretty much think it is the same mechanic as selection of files in a folder... using the shift command or the control command when choosing desired files. So it shouldn't be impossible (but is it profitable? and the collective column movements are not currently within the program)

...just sayin', incoherent? ridiculous?

Personally, I absolutely adore this thing called Ultimate General Civil War at this stage of development.

   

[A. P. Hill]

I made this observation, (albeit maybe not as clearly,) in the "When I say Hold, I mean it!" thread.

[jimcarrel]

Yes, A.P. and I just noticed someone in the support forum asking questions pertaining to selecting brigades. It just dawned on me this morning that while most players have, at the  least, an abstract concept of OOB's while in camp (building corps and divisions towards a purpose), once you deploy troops on the field, a planned order of battle goes out the window simply due to the method of getting troops on the field. We have had discussions on combining divisions, (what's the separation?), separating and rejoining  skirmishers (again separation or even, where are they?) . Maybe I am just getting too picky and am wanting something way different from publishers concept, but I don't think so. Just look at what we have right now. I consider it as more on the sim side than the game side. (and content of patches seem to indicate that) 

And again, I may just be dreaming and totally off track. In my opinion, modern day battle can be more fluid due to instant communications, a brigade in modern times could literally end up anywhere on the field, but  way back yonder in time, there was a definite battle plan that once put forth either succeeded or failed. If the guy in charge couldn't stick to the plan he was shown the door (fluidity was not condoned, whether in reality it could work or not). I'd just like a more historical way of getting troops on the field.  

Edited February 10, 2017 by jimcarrel

[Andre Bolkonsky]

20 hours ago, jimcarrel said:

At the risk of future reputation.
I'm going to use Union Campaign and River Crossing battle as example for this .

Considering the intermittent conversations we've had about moving troops to a desired staging area, it seems that since we all appreciate micromanaging (or at least most), that is our current problem. I think that the game engine is always in what I will call "Brigade Mode".

For example, when you start the battle, more than likely (but not always) you want to move brigades not as a whole, but in two different groups. Possibly a small feint to the West of the river near the top VP and the majority of brigades south down through the valley and then across the river to Southern VP. 

In order to do this the game engine is focused on individual brigade selection and movement.."Brigade Mode". Let us say you want to move everything you have down the valley to the South and then across the river to the Southern VP. You can select everything you have and draw a desired layout on the East side of the river near the lower VP, but the problem with that is that individual brigades take a straight path resulting in them going in a straight line through areas that you don't want them to go. In order to accomplish this movement in a strategical way, you have to individually select each brigade and draw a path for them. (and I might add that it rarely results in a military type movement)

You cannot select everything you have and designate a movement path for the whole force, by columns, to follow. (for example, down through the valley to the South).

Furthermore, you cannot individually select a group of brigades and move by defining a path for the selected group of brigades (in column) to a desired location.

First off, in reflection, this can probably only apply to battle start (original staging area), but what I'm proposing is a key to enable "Brigade" or "Force" selections. I'm just not sure what the ramifications would be if enabled through entire battle.

"Brigade mode" or default mode would allow selection of individual brigades (as it is now) and drawing individual paths.

A new "Force mode" that would allow picking all brigades in the staging box or a group of individually selected brigades and moving that selection ,by columns, by the path drawn.

I freely admit this has pros and cons. It could thrill micro-managers by hurting your commands by you forgetting which mode you are in (which could be negated by making Force mode a one time use after clicking, in other words you click the Force mode command and it is abandoned once path is drawn, but then if path is incorrect, you'd have to remember to click Force again or it wouldn't work, this would be a con)

I've not seen anything like this suggested and I may be totally out in la-la land (a.k.a. just a load of ka-ka), but I can sort of see some posts kind of suggesting a need for this type of control, it could possibly sort out some of the movement problems.

As far as including this type of control, I pretty much think it is the same mechanic as selection of files in a folder... using the shift command or the control command when choosing desired files. So it shouldn't be impossible (but is it profitable? and the collective column movements are not currently within the program)

...just sayin', incoherent? ridiculous?

Personally, I absolutely adore this thing called Ultimate General Civil War at this stage of development.

   

Yes. These points have been discussed frequently. But it never hurts to bring it up again. 

[Aetius]

On 2/10/2017 at 1:55 PM, jimcarrel said:

...just sayin', incoherent? ridiculous?

Not at all. I quite frequently maneuver by division - it's why I name my units the way I do. I also sometimes build a skirmisher horde and move them as a unit (like in the woods on the Confederate right in 2nd Bull Run), and I only use cavalry in groups - it makes them far more effective and increases survivability.

This is frustrated by the "straight line only" feature of division / group movement. I counter it somewhat by using what I call "gaggle mode", where instead of drawing a front line to give the units a formation, you make a quick squiggle around a single point just to get all the units headed in the same direction. To perform a flanking maneuver you have to do it 2 or 3 times to curve the units around, but it beats the hell out of drawing a path for each brigade - I only do that when it's required to get brigades to follow roads.