RvR PvP PvE meaningful RvR

[KrakkenSmacken]

Please site an example of where this worked properly.

 

I have played games/MMO's with winning conditions and none of them worked. POTBS and Guild Wars both had map winning conditions and both of them just put everyone on the path to quitting or always team jumping.

 

The best RVR pvp games ever made were games where the war went on and on and on.

 

Everyone loves the idea of playing for stakes, hell even I like that idea but it really has no place in an RvR MMO. Winning conditions is counter productive to the MMO concept.

 

If you want any kind of regular population playing this game NEVER introduce winning conditions.

 

Star Sonata.

 

One team gets to push to be emperor by building a space throne that has to be moved to a location to claim emperor. (usually takes three or four months if I recall)

 

This forces a universe reset, where everyone gets to keep any ships and what they can carry into the next universe to start over again. (Why I suggested holding on to capital port assets but losing all outposts on a wipe.)

 

Every universe map is different, but has some key systems that always exist.  (could be mirrored by random capital location at starting point, and all ports but capitals being neutral to start, requiring an early conquest race. Yea, the "historical experience" people would have fits with that one.)

 

The universe is built in layers based on station type/size, so new players have a place to make a home where the older players will find zero interest in owning, as well as a no-build area so there is always a place for new players to mess around.

 

It's a pretty good model, been working for years (on subscription), solves the problem of what do you keep, what do you lose, everyone knows they are going to lose bases and keep whatever they can pack onto their ships.  

 

So yea, if it's done right, it can work.

 

EDIT: Current version is Star Sonata 2, which started in 2011, but I have my account with a start time of 2005 in the first version. So over a decade and still going with regular updates 4,192 characters (5 max per account), in the current universe. 

For a Niche game I would call that a success.

 

I just found out in fact I still have game assets, over 300 million credits.

Edited April 12, 2016 by KrakkenSmacken

[Wilson09]

Please site an example of where this worked properly.

The best RVR pvp games ever made were games where the war went on and on and on.

Everyone loves the idea of playing for stakes, hell even I like that idea but it really has no place in an RvR MMO. Winning conditions is counter productive to the MMO concept.

If you want any kind of regular population playing this game NEVER introduce winning conditions.

>>Please site an example of where this worked properly.

New generation, new game concept and so on...I am not saying it would work...

 

>>The best RVR pvp games ever made were games where the war went on and on and on.

Which one? DAOC? Warhammer online? I played both of them. Finally, all games die for some reason.

 

>>If you want any kind of regular population playing this game NEVER introduce winning conditions.

I like this hypothesis. A statement.

I am not 100% sure, if it holds.

 

If I had the ressources, I´d give it a try...

[Vllad]

 

 

>>The best RVR pvp games ever made were games where the war went on and on and on.

Which one? DAOC? Warhammer online? I played both of them. Finally, all games die for some reason.

 

 

The better MMO's that were RvR's were Shattered Galaxy (one of the best ever), DAOC, Planetside 1 (not sure 2 really counts), Shadowbane (great RvR game, crappy coding).  

Warhammer, ESO and Guild Wars had RvR components but suffered from some serious problems. The Guild Wars winning condition really harmed the game.

 

WWII On-line and POTBS were the only RvR's that had winning conditions that even remotely worked but suffered by huge issues between map re-sets.

 

WWII On-line was one of the best RvR's ever created but still suffered from severe team jumping and huge pop drops while they worked out map changes.

 

All games die but winning conditions can really rush things along, ala POTBS.

 

I never played Star Sonata as the poster above listed. Interesting idea.