Ampen
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Posts posted by Ampen
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I really can't see the issue with not having this. Not only was different aids available, sailors of this time had a complete different understanding of sailing wich we can't even use for an aid in this game, such as currents, winds etc. I do think it's beneficial especially for the new players, whatever promotes people to get out there on the OS is good, what limits them limits their experience. For that reason at least make it optional or available as long as you are able to hire fleets.
As for the "navigation" as such in the game, there's really no achievement to it, so not implementing it due to "realistic" or whatever reason doesn't really cut it. The only thing it does is increase the time you have to spend on the OS for some travels as I see it. For those who still want the immersion it could be optional in that case, and if they consider it to be a disadvantage to not use that option, they can value it against the immersion or the feel of "achievement" of managing to hit a port from the other side of the caribbean.
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Tell me more about this hardcore PVP which requires you grind hundreds of hours of PVE fleets in order to be able to participate in a setpiece battle where, if you're lucky enough to get opponents to show up at all, it's all but guaranteed that whoever shows up with the highest BR can win without sinking any enemy ship.
Thanks but I'm hopeful that the inclusion of the Open World can be used for something a lot more interesting than just serving as a tremendously inefficient lobby system for Port Battles.
Sir Francis Drake sees your comments about privateering not mattering and is laughing as he swims in a pool full of Spanish treasure fleet gold.
I think you missed his point. For myself as an example, I'm mainly here because I'm interested in the PvP, and as such, the idea of risk-free hauling is a non-issue, really, I'm not out to catch traders. It's not what I expect from PvP, what I expect is fighting other fighting vessels.
On top of that, as a player interested in mainly PvP I also support your argument if I understand it correct, that the game should tweaked in some way to increase the chances of PvP, instead of as it is now, where it's basically down to attacking where one expects empty waters and no opposition. If I understand you correct the Open World as it is doesn't promote combat enough? If so, I'm totally with you, but I'd also like to hear if you have some ideas about it.
As for the subject at hand, I do think that strict econ players might be more willing to endure long OS travel for the sake of hauling, let's face it, it's an integral part of their play: they amass the resources needed and they use those to build products and ships. For me that's looking for PvP on the other hand, OS travel and the limit of teleporting once every 4th hour is really something that limits opportunities. Considering the vast reaches of the map and the few amount of players, one bad call could really wreck your entire evening.
I would also like to state that as a personal opinion, as a PvP'er I wouldn't mind taking the long OS trip as an escort for an eco player hiring me to do so. That on the other hand would probably require for me to sometimes be able to teleport a bit more often.
To sum it up, I do think there's merit to disallow teleporting with cargo completely (part of eco players gameplay) while on the other hand allow teleportation without cargo completely (promotes PvP, and will as well reduce the strain of empty cargo hauls for econ players).
Of course, some RvR fanatic will claim this destroys/disrupts/removes RvR, but really, I would say this game would benefit from the more actual PvP that the RvR contains, instead of vice versa.
edit: clarifications and typos
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Look, if some players want more PvP (since that's from where I see this coming, I doubt it's out of concern of people not doing PvP to "miss out" on something spectacular) the solution would be finding ways so that more players tried this game in my opinion. Trying to implement mechanics that will in effect cap your progress unless you PvP might make more players prone to PvP in the future, but I'm pretty damn certain it will make others drop out.
As such it's a horrible idea in my opinion, since it's my firm belief it will reduce player retention.
Player retention should be the main focus, since that's what will make or break this game as I see it considering it's a niche game.
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My understanding is that is what the OP is suggesting. PvP missions, not eliminating PvE.
His suggestion actually says "requires one-on-one PVP battles at each rank.", so it would be a mandatory thing to level up.
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From what I've experienced, PvP gives more XP and as such is a quicker way to level for those who like it. I think that's a pretty good way going about this.
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Welcome back Carel!
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buddy i played world of pirates (sid meier pirates based mmo) for 5 years. It had a similar sized world but you always knew your position by checking them map. Navigation/travel was tedious.....adding navigation aids will spoil a very immersive aspect of this game. Be careful what you wish for matey.
What I wish for is for as many of the new players in this game to stay in this game. As I said, most of us here are seasoned, so this doesn't really concern us that much since we've learnt to handle it. The issue as I see it is what effect it will have on new players. Will they consider it immersive, or will they consider it confusing?
One option of course is to have it as optional and then those who want the immersive experience can turn it off, but then the reply always is "others shouldn't have that advantage" (wich is sort of an odd reply though, since someone who claims to be able to navigate shouldn't be at a disadvantage then anyway), but this brings me to my conclusion:
In the same way as the early levels can hire henchmen NPC captains that follow you on missions, the very same early levels could also include navigational pointers, rulers, or whatever aid deemed necessary. All to get them into the game.
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Kids these days never had to play Everquest where if you die you lose everything unless you get back to your corpse also if you die you lose experience and have to earn it back to start gaining experience to the next level. They never had to wait a half hour for a boat to arrive in the Ocean of Tears. And then there is the grind in that game and every half way decent mmo out there that doesnt hold your hand as you play. If everything was fast and you reached the end game content or goal in a month people will get bored and leave way faster than they do now.
This is very true, and I agree that alot of games "spoonfeed" their players these days.
Now, this game has another issue, and that is that it's gigantic. If it's going to be dynamic there need to be more players or travel need to be compressed in some way, otherwise the result will be a pretty empty open sea most of the time. While that might have its charm, I do belive one thing this game need to survive is an active OS.
That said, considering the huge map, I would figure some kind of more leanient approach would be needed to increase the amount of players that stick around.
It's not an easy subject, that's for sure. But bottom line is this is a niche game, and as such it will attract less players to begin with, tedious tasks on top of that will make it more difficult. Of course the hardcore games have that charm with them that it's the hardcore players that will stick around, but how many will that be? Enough for this map?
edit: typos
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That's right... I said "in the meantime". By which I meant to provide help to the OP, not to imply that such tools have no place in game.
I'm sorry if it came out the wrong way, did see it as a support for the argument and assumed nothing other than that.
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Welcome back to Caribean!
Thank you very much! Expect us!..... to be afk.
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Teleports are already bad as it is.
Being able to teleport cargo as well is just too much. It will ruin the RvR game.
If people don't want the risk then they shouldn't be playing this game. It is post like this that give bad idea's that sneak into game.
I don't understand it as an issue where people want to transport stuff without risk, it's merely a fact that it sometimes require alot of time to haul stuff. As ObiQuiet says, if there would sometime develop trader chains I'm pretty certain not many haulers would argue about it.
Now, this interacts with the risk, I belive. I'd wager that haulers have less or no problem with the risk of losing their cargo if the haul is 20 minutes. If they do a haul of 2 hours and lose their cargo, my guess it's not the risk that will break their spirit, but the prospect of another 2 hour haul, wich might end up the same way.
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Well, people do drop out from the game. If it's because of something like this or something else might be up for debate, I do however belive that tedious stuff will make people drop out to a higher degree than challenging stuff. And in fairness, grinding once you reach a certain level and OS travel can be considered tedious.
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i think navigation as it is now...is perfect
I think this approach raises problems, really. Although you of course are entitled to your opinion, most of us are seasoned in this game. An approach to this issue is to envision what new players think of it, and how they will react. If new players drop out due to experiencing OS travel as unnecessary difficult to grasp to a start, that's really not beneficial. Topics like this wouldn't occur unless this was an issue.
Some of what you suggest is available externally, in the meantime:
http://navalaction.wikia.com/wiki/Maps_and_Navigation_Tools
Logging and drawing can be done with any diagramming or painting program you choose, if you are so inclined.
This as well I think supports my arguments. This map would'nt exist otherwise.
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Good idea, actually. All for it.
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I can't see the issue. The chain shots aren't really a marvel of accuracy, for me at least they spread pretty damn good.
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The system is fine. Don't want players? Go to pve server.
Potbs was a great game until the devs started listening to the players that sunk the most and needed the game to be safer.
Mhmm....well, people pick missions to gain XP, since there's actually quite the grind to gain levels. This is something I suppose some want to do in peace, learning the game at the same time. I really do not see the benefit of making this part harsh.
What would benefit us all would be more players. In that sense, I don't think the choice of potbs to make it safer for new players was what made it bad, it was players that demanded to be granted the ability to club them. And I say that because I belive that thinned out the population.
What that game in the end lacked, and what this game so far need, is more players. With that in mind, resorting to "go pve", "go fish" or "go play something else" just doesn't add up.
You want an empty sea? By all means, make it survival of the fittest. You want a crowded sea? Give players at least some slack.
edit: This game, as was potbs, is a niche game. We have to keep in mind it will not attract the same number of players as alot of other online games.
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I think that having a crew and officers that get better the longer you keep them together would be a good counterbalance to various unrealistic suicide tactics. Especially for gunnery reload.
Given that using landmarks and straight lines makes navigation relatively easy, I'm skeptical that the proposed mechanic will have much lasting value... the person on board whose skill will improve the most in that area is the player.
There are situations where one gets pretty well lost, but I don't think varying degrees of accuracy will make enough difference to warrant the warrant officer.
That is very good feedback, and I do agree with most of it. Think this will be more helpful for new players, although it might make others more inclined in longer journeys as well.
It could just as well be enough with a spyglass available on the OS to make it easier to spot landmarks.
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Here's what ours looks like. Is that what you have in mind?
Something like the one a few posts up? We are looking for feedback... which might or might not have some influence if we can fine tune it based on player input.
Although I do like your effort for the map, I belive you have a post about it in the map section of this forum. While your idea might be for it to be implemented or not, my suggestion is for some sort of implementation in the game, and for that sake it does feel like you're highjacking this thread.
Feel free to comment on the suggestion made in the OP.
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If they want to apply a realistic approach to who had what ships in the area during this time frame I am alright with it. No really, unfortunately all the nationals seam to think that that will gimp pirates, but it will most assuredly gimp them worse. The national powers at the time didn't put those massive investments of currency towards chasing pirates, they chased them in frigates and brigs and sloops of war. The same ships that the pirates caught used and refit. if done "realistically" that would do far more to level the playing field than give the nationals any kind of ship advantage over the pirates.
As the only place to build a good sized ship in the Caribbean was Havana they should make it a major pain in the ass (quests maybe?) for the Nationals to get frigates and the like over here and just use a slow drip of 4th and 3rd rates in that way as opposed to having everyone being able to cut ships of the line as they choose. If a pirate can steal one good on them but the concept of everyone building massive warships to fight in the Caribbean, while popular in movies, is factually wrong.
Course I also wish they would just get rid of all the NPC's anyway, make the game more pvp and less grind. But that could just be me being wishful.
Difference between nations and pirates would be that nations could have massed up the infrastructure to actually make bigger ships in the caribbean if they'd wanted to do that. So realistically, nationals could do it, while the pirates never was even close.
Now, about ships though, if the pirates were confined to certain ships or certain crew levels, the difference in ships between them and nationals would still be a non-issue. If pirates would be in frigates, I fail to see nationals would use 2nd- or 1st-rates to hunt them down. Out of necessity they would use frigates themselves mainly.
Rates on the other hand would be used for clashes over ports and other major conflicts between nations.
Now, this would mean the pirates would add for a new dimension, since if they could use neutral ports f.x., they would be a hazzle to say the least for traders. There would be a definite risk pirates was around.
This in turn would create the need for the nation to either leave the pirates be and accept a toll on trade etc from pirates, or create forces to police them, wich would merit strike forces made up of small and mid-range ships.
On top of that there would also be the evil foreigners of other nations that needed to be handled, so the need for a organized large force of high-range ships would be needed as well.
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To me this sounds interesting. Could be connected to currents (wich is a part of sailing) that would increase the open sea speed. Would be very interesting for traders to haul quicker that way, as well as it would invite to PvP/escort actions.
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Why all nations? There are many war zones on the map... Ever nation has its own war zone. And these war zones are spread over the whole map. And... if you call the pvp between Denmark and Sweden "not valid" (the only war zone I am interested in atm), then I have no idea what else you want.
Edit: And these war zones are even shifting, like for example the French-Dutch war. France pushes deeper and deeper into Dutch territory, which changes the face of the frontline constantly.
I agree with this, no one should let their passing fancies sway them by some random gust of wind. If one decided to go trading, crafting or whatever one should live with the decision. It's part of being a captain.
Next time one can coordinate where to be to join a battle. This works in EVE Online just fine. Everyone coordinates large scale battles or chance upon them. I find that and opportunity attacks quite thrilling.
Note: I do get why people enjoy the teleporting options. Hope a good midway decision can be struck.
Yeah, sure. Problem is players, or at the moment, lack of them. You can plan and coordinate, but there's not the amount of players that are available in EVE online. I'm saying the distance and the lack of players create a need for speedier transports if we want an active game in terms of RvR, and players interested in RvR or PvP will be limited to areas where other players are. Moving across the map is a strain on this, and once this game go public, there will be an influx of new players. Now, if a majority of those players consider this to be a strain my guess is a majority of them will drop out, and we will still be sitting with the same problem: too few players and too large a map.
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That depends on where on the map you are. If you want PVP... Sail to the frontlines. If you want constant PVP without long ways... Join Sverige.
Focus your energy on one part of the map. You don't need to be everywhere at any time.
Exactly my point. You need to focus on a specific part of the map. Meaning, if you want a valid RvR going, you have to focus players from all nations to a certain area.
And if people come here for naval action, how long do you figure they'll stay if they're confined to a certain area?
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I think the current system is already to much, I would like to see more players on the sea instead of people taking a plane so they can fight, Do you know that you can actually sail to the place?
I love this game for the Realism so devs please don't do such an arcady thing.
Well then they should make a diffrent server for all the arcady people so the people who want a realistic sailing experience can also play.
Than you have your arcady free ships and teleports and we have our hardcore realism experience, win win situation.
The problem is players, and that there's not enough of us to fill the map, and won't be for ages. So it's either mainly sailing, or there's mainly PvP. Arcady or not.
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It is a sailing game after all...
Really? I figured it was an 18th century naval combat game.
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Development priorities 2
in Current Feature Improvement Suggestions
Posted
Overhaul of War & Peace mechanics and national relations, pirate role and national alliances.
Long overdue, and it will also give more reason chasing around the OS and as such give a meaning to the dull sailing. Not to mention pirate role could really make this game truly unique and interesting.