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So this makes no sense whatsoever. In my campaign example neither Heligoland or the Aleutian Islands have oil discovered but yet they are the richest provinces. As for the calculation, this is how I read and interpret it: 'There is no point in calculating, because it is wrong, we know it is wrong. But we aren't going to fix it because it is only meant to give some data that doesn't mean anything because no one knows the importance of it anyway.' If it isn't going to be calculated and displayed properly, then do not calculate it!

Yes, getting everything balanced perfectly would be a pita. But looking for outliers should be easy. I dont think the Aleutians are at that level of income today. If the developers are unable or unwilling then mods would be great to address the issues.

Ok, so now I'm just getting more and more confused with my new 1920 test campaign... I started writing down territories and population and income...there are things that just seem whacky. For the most part, the population figures aren't screaming out at me, but the GDP stuff sure is. Here are just a few juicy ones: Scotland 6,484,860 people $ 1,408,637,000 Income $217 per person Southern England 23,986,520 people $ 1,737,846,000 Income $72.45/person Western Germany 26,972,390 people $ 1,778,139,000 Income $65.92/person Heligoland 1,450 people $ 45,148,570 Income $31,136.94/person Eastern USA 33,159,650 people $ 718,831,500 Income $ 21.68/person Eastern Aleutians 1,740 people $ 74,465,900 Income $ 42,796.49/person

Yes, transports are important. I think the max is 190% as that is high as mine got and stayed there for years... However, there is something else going on with the economic situation. After my investigations last night, I'm not sure it has much to do with oil. I have just noticed the oil calcs can't be right/representative. Either they are just wrong or oil is being double/triple counted. In the campaign I started in 1910 by the 1940s the USA was over $3 trillion in GDP. No other country eclipsed $1 trillion. In fact, if you added everyone else up, you wouldn't even get to $1.5 trillion. In the real world, if you were to look at the first half of the 20th century, the GDPs of western Europe would be more than that of the USA. And yes, the USA was at war just as much as everyone else. So what is going on? What I think that is going on has to do with the economic and population growth coefficients for each individual territory. I looked in a fresh save file that I created and was looking at the wealth growth numbers and I think they are over doing the USA in relation to the other industrialized regions of the world. What I may try tonight is giving all of them the exact same value and see what happens.

My gut says France is probably correct. Sumatra at 52K would then have to be multiplied by the population of Sumatra to get total barrels produced and then divided out by France's entire population to get the effect of Sumatra. The one that REALLY looks wonky is Japan. Seven provinces that average out to 483k? No way. You know the Japanese home provinces aren't good for much, so what else do they have giving them that much? I am starting to think it is a wonky alliance calculation that isn't being handled correctly.

I've noticed that too....I didn't pay much attention to it because they should calculate to zero and 9.7*10^-11 is essentially zero; probably a rounding error that they need to clean up and tell it to round to the nearest integer. I have been more worried with just wrong calculations and the world production of several trillion barrels per year. ---------------------------------- So I find myself not wanting to play this game tonight. It seems some of the patches lately have made some things worse so that they may be robbing the enjoyability out of it. It looks like it is going to be difficult to balance your budget with any more than a handful of ships. That is unless you're the USA which gets an economic growth rate that is just bonkers. Oil, which I am told is a driver of a nation's economy, makes no sense with the calculations. Those ships are apt to get chewed up by the ai in combat using inferior ships. A lot of the missions I seem to get are these destroyer attack missions on a BB which I can't withdraw from and then spend several minutes manually withdrawing. Right now, I'm willing to overlook the alliance system and the ways wars work or there are circumstances where a submarine seems far too powerful.

I just started a new campaign (1920) to see things fresh. Keeping a balanced budget as the UK will be tough. I built like 10 BB and then about 170DD (keeping it simple for this right now) and can't max out transports, research and training with the ships 'in being.' Oh, and the starting point for GDP growth for the USA was 23%. USSR was 16%.

What is your GDP and GDP growth rate and how much oil do you have vs the others and their GPD? I contend there is something wrong with the oil calculation for some circumstances. A few days ago I went through every one of Germany's territories and added the oil up and it didn't get close to what was being displayed. I would love to know the formula for GDP and then hand check it.

Oil calculations sure seem whacky.... Let's look at Germany. They have eight provinces, so pretty easy... Population is 107,833,300 with 200,720.9 barrels per capita according to politics screen. That works out to 21,644,397,025,970 gross barrels. Latvia 1,401,331 0 bpp 0gb Poland 10,462,060 0 bpp 0gb Eastern Germany 16,262,180 30,744.29bpp 499,969,177,952.2gb Western Germany 22,918,690 34,906bpp 799,999,793,140gb Southern Germany 10,395,340 0bpp 0gb Galacia 7,173,227 13,940.73bpp 100,000,020,835.71gb Northern France 22,793,210 17,590.76bpp 400,949,886,739.6gb Southern France 16,530,310 0bpp 0gb Total people 107,936,348 (close) Gross Barrels 1,800,918,878,667.51 Barrels per person 16,685 So, the calculation seems a bit....off So does it count minor allies in there too?? German minors are: Greece 0bpp Argentina 0bpp Iraq 4,754,500 736,144.7bpp 3,499,999,976,150gb So if we include Iraqi oil Germany gets 5,300,918,854,817.51gb Which divided out by the German population and not letting Iraq get any at all... 49,111.5 barrels per person. Soooooooo, what's the deal? THEN, let's just think about this from a stand point of WTF for a moment. Production here from Iraq alone equates to 3.5 trillion barrels of oil. World production in 2021 was 'only' 28 billion barrels. Flicking through the countries and a quick eyeball test looks like USA, France, USSR and Germany all have problems. Japan and Spain are correct.

Both times were attacks on large task forces with 8+ DDs. My point about ammo is like this... DD1 sunk is one torpedo for sure DD2 sunk is torpedo #2 for sure BB sunk is torpedo #3 for sure (realistically more than one with triple hull and torpedo #5) CA damaged is torpedo #4 for sure DD damaged is torpedo #5 for sure Seems pretty amazing considering it only has three tubes.

I have to each the thought something is whacky with submarines... I lost a fully maxed out BB complete with sonar three (refitted it on all BBs due to too strong of subs) along with two destroyer escorts to a 312ton sub. If that wasn't enough, it happened again the next turn. Then there was damage to other vessels. NOW, lucky shot, maybe more technically advanced than I think, blah blah blah...a 312 ton sub wouldn't be able to carry enough torpedos to inflict that much damage.

An observation on the AI scrapping ships... Seems a bit aggressive. I am in 1946 and the AI is scrapping ships from the 1930s. To me I would think those would be ships prime for a refit.

I seem to be getting stuck too. I can use the force to close and it takes enough time that I walked away and came back 30min later and found it did eventually close down. I haven't checked for corruption.

Now when I go into battles with submarines in particular where you are forced to auto resolve, it isn't showing me the result....no clue what got damaged, how bad, etc... https://youtu.be/cLU2yb5nAps

Soooo can I go in for a refit and replace the guns? Is it going to tell me how worn out they are? I'm like everyone else...why introduce something new when we are trying to get what we have figured out?

sounds like me. @Nick Thomadis is there a way to compress the ship data after refits so it doesn't have as many lines of of stuff from all the refits?

Things have been getting better... Things I'll tack on... Not so many "destroyer attack" missions....especially with heavier vessels in the area. I swear, I have to contend with 3-5 of these every turn. I am getting tired of pushing withdraw and it failing...then waiting awhile for the mission to load (save file has gotten really big) then running away for a few minutes, then ending it and waiting just as long for it to autosave the giant save file again. Right now, this is one of the biggest things bugging me and taking away from the enjoyment....the amount of time it takes to disengage from a mission I don't want

I have noticed this too. I have also noticed the size of the save json just grows and grows. When I looked at it, it is just bloated with ship data, and then subsequent refit data. Are you a big refitter like I am??

I had that happen too.... Trying to invade and nope...instead I get to share in the war reparations of zero.

What is your system? Is it overclocked at all? I had some crashes that were related to on OC.

Just some general observations (admiral observations?) of things that seem a bit out of whack... I am nearing the ending stages of my campaign now in 1942 and I have deployed massive forces to conduct an invasion of the Italian homeland. The Italian fleet has come out to meet me, so we had a big battle. When the battle started, my force was 40 ships; 27 DD, 7 CA and 6 BB. I can't remember how many ships Italy had, but probably in the 15-20 range. My ships were arranged in some interesting formations that made little sense to me; lead BBs being old clunkers and trailing ones being brand new high speed modern ones. It probably took me at least 30 minutes of breaking apart divisions and trying to reassemble them. I feel the worst are when they are in screens and on both sides. Then came the inevitable bump and smash as they sailed around in circles in their new arrangements. However the worst part was the terrible performance we have all seen when we have a ship selected. With 40 ships, like that, something is always being selected to keep them pointed in the right spot. I have a 5950X so while it isn't the absolute top dog anymore, it ain't far off either. Right now until multi thread processing can be implemented it seems like the number of ships really needs a sort of hard cap and divide it out. In the above instance, I would have rather have had three battles than one giant one where the PC thread is struggling. Next, I've said it before and I'll say it again...the economy of the USA is out of whack. It grows at over 11% during war year after year. Average GDP growth for the USA (and Canada) in the 20th century was more like 3.2%.

Furthermore, you'll be doing well, like an invasion and be midway through and then one of the other countries takes a peace deal and all that effort you put into getting that invasion force gathered is out the window three turns in.

Agreed. I still have no clue what the difference is.

I think I finally figured out how to successfully do invasions a few days ago... If it calls for 500,000 tons on the mission bug, you better bring 3-5x that. I invaded Southern Italy and it called for a million...I brought nearly four million. I have successfully carried out three invasions in a row....when I can actually get them to go through that is. NOW THEN, my problem seems to be initiating an invasion. I have a bunch of ships adjacent to a territory. I go to politics and select invasion. Next turn, nothing. Then I wait a turn, move even more tonnage adjacent, call for an invasion and again nothing. My last four or five invasions have failed to even initialize.

Since we seem to be on the topic of convoys and battles... Why do I need battleships? They almost never get selected to engage. It is always my CAs. Why do I have to engage a single DD that has a speed advantage and runs away from the beginning? PITA. Continuing on the run away theme, I had a situation of a giant TF with several BB (one of them a 93,000 ton monster) and several CA versus a lone DD. So I hit auto resolve rather than waste time with chasing a figment. Every one of my ships takes damage. The giant BB takes heavy damage. Then, logically it is teleported from the Mediterranean to the Gilbert Islands for repairs. By the time it is repaired and sails back, I could build a new one. WTF?