Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Lars Kjaer

PvP

Recommended Posts

I have no fear to sail in no safe zones, you all can see me (Martin Connor ingame) often in high seas, with a basic cutter or a Pickle. If I had a bigger ship, I will sail with her. If I cannot avoid a fight, I will do it. It's not a good fight that I avoid. I intentionally avoid a fight that I cannot win, and I think there's no need to explain why, right? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Pada said:

 

Totally support new players should have protection, but we need to limit the use of the safezone to high rank players.

Rank means nothing.  A gank is a gank, regardless of rank. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This hand wringing always boils down to two things for me: 1) safe zones should be there to protect the rookie and the players who are more interested in PvE content than PvP, but want the options to do both, as well as keep a nation from being one ported; 2) while that first function exists there should be major incentives to encourage people out of the safe zones that aren't currently in the game.  What gives us number two?

CONTENT.

And even better, player-triggered content.

RvR and the current hostility grind against PvE is not content, it's just a gateway to port battle content.  Most hostility grinds are done in such a way where we actually are trying to avoid PvP because we prefer the RvR battle to the open world gank fest. The coming hostility changes won't fix this as far as I can tell, as we'll still try to engineer insta-flips that minimizes the risk of the gank. So what kind of content are we talking about that lures people out of the safe zone?

Sure, good PvE content will do it:

  • Exploration
  • Trade quests, player-generated deliveries, etc.
  • Scaled (decreased) taxes and (increased) production as you get farther away from green zones, etc.
  • Pop-up resource gathering spots, trade outposts for rare/valuable mats/goods, etc.
  • Fortification con/destruction in preparation for next day's port battle, etc.
  • Ship escort quests, etc. etc. etc.

But all of that PvE content will only generate non-consensual PvP, which while being great, only satisfies some people. So we need good player-generated PvP opportunities that are not RvR-related.  What do these look like?

  • Flag-pulled raids (and pffft to the dev's for their lazy stab at a prior implementation)
    • Imagine raiding a port, picking up a chest that constitutes a portion of that port's earnings/production/clan-warehouse goods during it's port battle window, and having to escort that ship back to your nation's port before you can open it...
  • Governor/port missions for PvP kills of a certain nation, clan, etc.
  • In-game bounty system with port-based "rumors" of player locations (with players who avoid a bounty while staying in-game getting some reward) ala hide-and-seek
  • Post-PvP battle location wreckage/looting that creates always open battle zones, etc. etc. etc.

This game will literally die from lack of content. Non-consensual PvP can only persist for so long without really good content to support the players that prefer the non-PvP content. RvR is the only end-game available and the lack of opportunities for people who prefer more PvP to PvE in their play style have very few options to get it.  Worse, the PvP mark system exacerbates this by giving rewards to the winners and none to the losers such that it destabilizes the will for PvP. There's no middle ground where people can feel good about losing a ship and want to do it again because either 1) it was fun despite losing or 2) they were rewarded enough for it that they can get right back on the horse.

There are so many open world, full loot games that have found the right balance it's astonishing to me that the Naval Action dev's haven't emulated the better parts of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, victor said:

so why bother with them?

Jeez, you are so contradictory ...

Know what ... go on crying on the forum

I you are such a coward - why not play on the PvE server? - If ppl don't want to do PvP why then go to the PvP server? Atm nothing has any value, you can make millions from trading - risk free (I know, I do it) and buy the PvP marks.. You can't tell me that loosing a ship actually hurts the player since it's so easily replaced, there's no value in fighting bots because they are so incredibly dumb, and PvP is NOT RvR.. there's a huge difference. If you want to cry? - why not do it in the PvE server where you belong?

God knows no one is going to get better sitting in the safezone.. is ganking a problem? - sure it has always been a problem.. I usually sail with two or three mates.. why? - because the game is a social game if nothing else and chances are we're not going to get any PvP on the PvP server anyway so might as well have someone to talk to in between laying in front of different capitals waiting for someone to get their balls out of the purse and attack us. Problem is the cowardice is infectious. When I started out I prob lost 12-15 PvP matches in a row.. I play for DK-NG and we've been blessed with both Vieques and Hat island (tho it were positioned a bit further to the south back in the day) and we were raided constantly. I accepted it - it's a PvP server.. Everyone who's been around from back then will know my primary issue was with the magical cloaking devices where ppl were hiding in BS screen - not the PvP in itself.. But you don't get better hiding in safezone and neither will the rest of you cowardly nation since they will learn from the example of their peers.. In the end - worst case - everyone ends up like the dutch, no balls for PvP, no brains for RvR, no guts for playing NA.. If it's so much trouble learning this game why don't you go play tetris instead.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, blubasso said:

I have no fear to sail in no safe zones, you all can see me (Martin Connor ingame) often in high seas, with a basic cutter or a Pickle. If I had a bigger ship, I will sail with her. If I cannot avoid a fight, I will do it. It's not a good fight that I avoid. I intentionally avoid a fight that I cannot win, and I think there's no need to explain why, right? 

My ingame name is Lars Kjaer and I'll be happy to teach you both manual sails, and give you some 1vs1 practice if you want to improve.. The basic cutter can't tag but I can make you a h.rattle and a prince we can duel with in the bahamas.. I'm EU tz so look me up if you would care to get a few lessons - risk free since I'll be providing the ship and even will refrain from killing you.

EDIT: and there's no shame in running from a fight you can't win. Only in not trying..

Edited by Bearwall
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Wraith said:

This hand wringing always boils down to two things for me: 1) safe zones should be there to protect the rookie and the players who are more interested in PvE content than PvP, but want the options to do both, as well as keep a nation from being one ported; 2) while that first function exists there should be major incentives to encourage people out of the safe zones that aren't currently in the game.  What gives us number two?

CONTENT.

And even better, player-triggered content.

RvR and the current hostility grind against PvE is not content, it's just a gateway to port battle content.  Most hostility grinds are done in such a way where we actually are trying to avoid PvP because we prefer the RvR battle to the open world gank fest. The coming hostility changes won't fix this as far as I can tell, as we'll still try to engineer insta-flips that minimizes the risk of the gank. So what kind of content are we talking about that lures people out of the safe zone?

Sure, good PvE content will do it:

  • Exploration 
  • Trade quests, player-generated deliveries, etc.
  • Scaled (decreased) taxes and (increased) production as you get farther away from green zones, etc.
  • Pop-up resource gathering spots, trade outposts for rare/valuable mats/goods, etc.
  • Fortification con/destruction in preparation for next day's port battle, etc.
  • Ship escort quests, etc. etc. etc.

But all of that PvE content will only generate non-consensual PvP, which while being great, only satisfies some people. So we need good player-generated PvP opportunities that are not RvR-related.  What do these look like?

  • Flag-pulled raids (and pffft to the dev's for their lazy stab at a prior implementation)
    • Imagine raiding a port, picking up a chest that constitutes a portion of that port's earnings/production/clan-warehouse goods during it's port battle window, and having to escort that ship back to your nation's port before you can open it... Grant VM - open a VM store where ALL books can be purchased - basically get a successfull raid - depending on the BR of the port you get VM (1,2 or 3 as a max) and for a certain amount buy the rare books that we all would much rather avoid having to grind for. You should still be able to - but grinding is PvE'ing and let's incentivize getting ppl into OW..
  • Governor/port missions for PvP kills of a certain nation, clan, etc.
  • In-game bounty system with port-based "rumors" of player locations (with players who avoid a bounty while staying in-game getting some reward) ala hide-and-seek
  • Post-PvP battle location wreckage/looting that creates always open battle zones, etc. etc. etc.

This game will literally die from lack of content. Non-consensual PvP can only persist for so long without really good content to support the players that prefer the non-PvP content. RvR is the only end-game available and the lack of opportunities for people who prefer more PvP to PvE in their play style have very few options to get it.  Worse, the PvP mark system exacerbates this by giving rewards to the winners and none to the losers such that it destabilizes the will for PvP. There's no middle ground where people can feel good about losing a ship and want to do it again because either 1) it was fun despite losing or 2) they were rewarded enough for it that they can get right back on the horse.

There are so many open world, full loot games that have found the right balance it's astonishing to me that the Naval Action dev's haven't emulated the better parts of them.

Took the liberty to expand a bit on the idea.. Most of the ideas has already been proposed numerous times. I'm Lars Kjaer, aka Bearwall, and I approve of this post.

Just for reference:

#globalserverfailedsohardsoletsalltryitalloveragain

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Headless Parrot said:

...another consideration is...

I know of 2 small clans that have stopped trying to PVP. Mostly new players -  They were constantly losing competitive ships to ganking fleets at a rate that could not be sustained. Its easy to seek out PVP when we can replace ships easily and know what youre doing in battle - large clan/groups of Vets, etc. However, for many new/small clans/players, this is not possible. They have no PVP experience, no training against a player and no confidence. This is not an opinion, but rather an observation relative to your post. There are more than a few reasons for the lack of PVP. I wish the Devs would take away that bath tub fleet practice stuff and bring back Duel. At least we could teach the rookies, one on one and give them a chance to win, survive, or at least have the confidence to try PVP. 

Duel room, Custom matches in Legends make it happen then the game might be worth playing again. Watching from a far the latest changes, for example the safe zones, makes me shake my head and think what the game was 2 years ago and what it is today. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough for me. I will write your ingame name so we will meet and have a little practice (for me, I think you don't need it ;) ). Or maybe I will send you a MP when I am online.

Thank you for your time :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

My ingame name is Lars Kjaer and I'll be happy to teach you both manual sails, and give you some 1vs1 practice if you want to improve.. The basic cutter can't tag but I can make you a h.rattle and a prince we can duel with in the bahamas.. I'm EU tz so look me up if you would care to get a few lessons - risk free since I'll be providing the ship and even will refrain from killing you.

EDIT: and there's no shame in running from a fight you can't win. Only in not trying..

Fair enough for me. I will write your ingame name so we will meet and have a little practice (for me, I think you don't need it ;) ). Or maybe I will send you a MP when I am online.

Thank you for your time :)

EDIT it will take a little while to reach Bahamas from KPR (I sail under British flag) but as I said, I have no fear to sail in high seas, but I have to track the safest route.
Edited by blubasso

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well even though I have brought the same argument up more times than I can remember I guess I will do it again. You simply will never have a successful game that FORCES people to PVP....the motivation has to come from the fact that it is enjoyable to people. I for one HATE PVE in this game....well most games truth be told.....like I absolutely detest it with every fiber of my being. I would gladly drop $100 tomorrow to avoid the need to do any PVE. It is complete and utter garbage.....even those words are too kind for it. Yet.....here I am looking at massive PVE timesink to get loot or to unlock ship xp slots on every single ship I want to sail. By the way whoever came up with that idea at Game Labs....well lets just say I'm not wishing you a Merry Christmas. 

This game has placed a huge emphasis on gear and now it looks like we are going to make things even worse with 4+5 and 5+5 ships. So, we have newer players who are at a huge disadvantage with PvP experience and most likely an even bigger disadvantage with gear, ships, and money....and you want them to go forth and engage more in PVP? C'mon man are you serious? The deck is so stacked against them they have virtually zero chance of success. You want to encourage more PVP then stop hiding behind upgrades and ships that are not available to all. Sure, some will still choose to not participate in PVP but those people never will...they simply do not enjoy it. However, I suspect an awful lot more people would be willing to engage in fights if they knew they were at least on a more level playing field when it comes to gear and ships. And also when the loss of that ship isn't going to completely cripple them financially. 

The mods and books right now in this game are a complete joke. Having 4+5 or 5+5 ships are an even bigger joke. The only thing that has changed in NA over the last 3.5 years is that it is way less skill dependent and way more who has the numbers....better ships....and better gear. Asking newer players to venture forth into an arena that they are nothing more than fodder is just absurd. Offering up PvP, CM, VM are all crap ideas....what has it fixed? We switched to these 1 dura ships as a way of encouraging more ship production and drive the economy...did it work? Nope. Only reason people are crafting shit now is because they are rich as hell and can afford to burn money hand over fist to get a new super ship that will give them an advantage over their opponents. This whole system is just a joke......

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×